Raw Transcript: Video EpW2lFqxx80

All right, Bob. Pleasure to meet you, man. Thanks for coming. >> My pleasure. Good trip. >> You You have a uh a fascinating backstory. Uh so you worked at a nuclear base called Malmstrom in the 60s. Is that right? >> That's right. And um why don't you explain what your job was there at that nuclear base? >> Okay. My job I was trained as a nuclear launch uh well a missile launch officer. It turned out to be of course nuclear weapons. Uh and at Malstrom at that time we had uh the Minute Man one. Now it's I think the Minute Man 3, but Malstrom is still operating as a strategic missile base. >> Today it is. >> Today yes. >> And what specifically was your job description there? >> So basically uh we were trained to monitor and launch missiles if given the order. of course um and uh and prepare for uh you know nuclear war basically. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> What sort of psychological evaluations do you have to go through to have your hands on the nuclear button or have control over these nuclear weapons? >> You know, I don't think I'm the right guy to answer that. I know we were evaluated uh on a regular basis as to uh you know uh were were we in the right I don't know how to put it uh frame of mind or uh uh disposition to uh have that responsibility and of course whether or not we're uh uh maintained our training uh on on what to do under certain circumstances Like what I'm trying to get is there were there was there like a specific type of person they were looking at to be working at this nuclear site like did you have to report like any sort of drugs or medications or anything like that that might alter alter your state of mind or your mental well-being because I mean I imagine this is like extremely important job. >> Yeah, it was an important job. Um but I don't recall any specifics that we or requirements that we had to do. Um uh so uh of course the we we did have an office of special investigations there and they would monitor us and of course we would be we we'd have to be checked from time to time. >> By that I mean the uh checked out on the equipment and any modifications. >> Mhm. And uh so the minute how many missiles were you in control of at that at that base? How many how many uh they were inter ICBMs, right? Intercontinental ballistic missiles. >> That's correct. Minutemen. >> Yeah. Minute men. Uh well, we had uh control of 10 at each of the what we called a launch control facilities. >> Mhm. >> And we had about 15 that I recall at the time of Minute Man one. So we had a total of about 150 of these uh Minute Man one missiles at the ready, ready to go at any time. And um was there any type of daily or weekly sort of like routine maintenance you had to do on this stuff or like how did it work? >> Uh I wouldn't say it was daily. Uh every now and then they they'd have a mod or some replacement of a part they needed to do or improvement >> program. Uh but this was not a a daily occurrence. >> You you have to have like super top secret clearance to work at one of these sites, right? >> Uh we had above top secret clearance. >> Above top secret? >> Yeah. >> So it's QLE clearance. Is that what it's called? >> Uh I'm not going to go into that too much. Uh what I I'll just tell you it was above top secret, >> right? So yeah. Yeah. So in the event of like a a nuclear exchange, either we launch a rocket first or another country launches a rocket at us or an an intercontinental ballistic missile with, you know, warheads on it against us. Like what is the level of readiness for a guy like you working at Malmstrom in the 60s, in the mid60s? Like is there a protocol? Is there a procedure that you guys have to rehearse every day or every week or whatever or or like what's how does that work? Say that you guys get like a red alert or something like this and there's like an in incoming missile. How important are you guys on the scale of all of the nuclear capabilities we have in the country? Like from from the airplanes, the bombers to the submarines to the ICBMs were st those are stationary, right? those can't be moved. So, those are probably the most vulnerable nuclear weapons that we have. >> So, we uh had standard procedures and how to launch the missiles. >> We didn't have to prepare because we we we trained in that and we were checked out uh on how to do that and how quickly to do it uh on a regular basis. we had these um checks uh and uh we didn't make any decisions about launching missiles. All those decisions would have been made uh higher up. >> Mhm. >> We would have gotten a um coded message, right? And I won't go into this very much, but it was simply a coded message to launch and we would launch and we those missiles would be in the air within seconds, >> right? And uh we didn't have to we didn't have to prepare the missiles in any way. The these were solid fueled missiles. In other words, we didn't have to uh load fuel on them or anything like that. They were ready to go. >> Mhm. Yeah. The president has a nuclear football he travels around with with like a menu like a Denny's menu. This the way it's been described to me. It's like a Denny's menu of codes for strategies to uh >> I will I will say the U even though it's not a specifically written policy that it's implied that uh the president could order a preemptive strike. Preemptive meaning if uh it's the judgment of his security team that we are about to be attacked by nuclear weapons. >> He or she could decide to launch missiles ahead of that attack, >> right? >> Preemptively. And then there's that whole like la Are you familiar with the launch on warning? Is that what it's called? Have you ever heard of launch on warning which is a bit from what I understand it's the idea that if we get some sort of uh signals intelligence that there is a missile that has launched somewhere in the world say for example North Korea uh we have to empty our Minutemen silos in case those are being targeted because we can't risk losing them. Meaning that if we have intelligence that there's a nuclear missile that's been launched, right? And let's say it's only I don't know how long I don't know how long it takes, maybe 20 minutes for a nuclear missile to get across the world to here. So maybe like 2 minutes after we get intelligence that a missile is launched. Is it true that you have to launch those nukes from the Minutemen silos because they're stationary and they're super vulnerable? >> No, we had no standing orders like that. Of course, we uh we don't have the latest intelligence where we were. Right. Well, you guys are just the guys who are pulling the trigger, right? You Yeah. There's other people making those decisions. >> Exactly. We didn't make any decisions like that. Uh and we wouldn't know if a missile had been launched or not, but we did have early warning system. Um uh what was it called? Uh well, a NORAD North American uh >> Mhm. uh defense system uh would detect that and now it's augmented by satellites probably >> would detect launches and then it'd be up to somebody up the line to make the decision >> to launch for us to launch. Makes me wonder how I I always you know the cold war is so interesting because you know that was a pivotal point in history when uh warfare sort of changed forever and uh it started it started moving to the shadows. Everything was happening in the shadows and everything was based on fear and projections and that kind of stuff and counter intelligence and intelligence and and you know the threat of nukes of nuclear war seemed to be like the looming thing of the dark cloud over everyone's head. Everyone was concerned about that for good reason. But I wonder now how much of a threat do you think nuclear war is in today's day and age? And like what do you think the chances of a nuke getting launched today would be? >> Well, I think the chances are greater than they were in the 60s. Uh uh when I was there at Melstrom in the late mid to late60s uh uh the Soviet Union was the major opponent with nuclear weapons. I think China was just beginning to develop their nuclear program. Uh now China has a significant number I'd say in the hundreds of nukes uh with the ability to launch them. And then we've got total of nine countries in the world who have nukes. any one of those countries if they used a nuke in let's say uh a regional war for example Pakistan and India >> right >> both have nuclear weapons and they're in a contest over uh over an area of the Kashmir which they've been fighting over for for a long time But you know, who's to say that one of them wouldn't launch nukes against the other? >> Yeah. >> And if that happened, um, that would create a a crisis situation, I think. >> How do you think the US would respond if Pakistan nuked India? >> Hard to say. hard to say, but just the mere fact that they were being used would uh uh would create a very serious situation. And of course, we have China involved now with uh alliances uh with one or more of those countries. And uh well the more nukes you have out there the greater the possibility that there would be an accidental >> launch also. >> Yeah. There's also the threat like of counterinsurgencies or like cartels or breakaway militias getting their hands on a nuke. >> That's correct. And these people aren't wrapped up in diplomatic treaties or they don't have relationships with nation states. They're just sort of rogue splinter militia operations that, you know, could cause chaos without having to pay the repercussions of launching a nuke, right? Like if you you could and and also one of the crazy things is if you had like one of these small backpack nukes or tactical nukes or whatever and you put it on a truck in Ukraine and it detonates, there's no way as far as I'm aware to detect who that came from, right? It would be up to people analy trying to analyze, oh, did it come from Russia? Did it come from Ukraine or whatever? And that could be a pretext for like a fullout global thermonuclear war depending on who's blamed for it, right? When it's just, you know, maybe a cartel or something. >> Yeah. And you mentioned tactical nukes. Um Russia already has tactical nukes. We have tactical nukes, but uh President uh Trump and Putin have already uh stated that they're going to be um developing uh more and varied types of tactical nukes. Now, these nukes are even though they're called tactical, uh meaning that they could be used in a a regional war. for example, Russia has threatened to use them against Ukraine, for example, uh in that war. Uh are still pretty powerful. They're in the 15 uh kiloton range, which is the same power range that was used on Hiroshima >> in World War II. >> Mhm. So, one of those could wipe out a 100,000 people, >> right? >> It's pretty scary stuff. >> Yeah. >> And um you know, this whole conflict with uh Iran and Israel and the United States right now is pretty crazy as well. >> Yes. Yes. Uh let me just say that you know Pakistan is a nuclear weapon nuclear power. >> Mhm. >> And they have of course they it's a pretty much a Muslim nation. >> Mhm. >> As is Iran, >> right? >> And they've voiced support for Iran. So it's not I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that they could even provide a nuclear weapon to Iran. >> You don't think it's outside of the realm of possibility that they can do that? >> I don't I think that's a possibility because again uh they might interpret this conflict with Iran as a as a religious conflict. >> Yes. It's hard to know. It doesn't seem like they can keep their story straight with the reason why we did this. There's I've I've heard multiple reasons at least with the Iraq war the all the all the politicians were sticking to a cohesive narrative. It doesn't seem now that any of them can keep their story straight. You know, you have the vice president and the uh speaker of the house and they all have different stories. >> You know, it wasn't that long ago. Uh I remember uh let's say 15 20 years ago you could have gone into the internet and learned how to build a nuclear weapon in detail. >> Mhm. uh the ability to construct a nuclear weapon uh let's say a dirty bomb especially um is not let's say uh out of the question of uh a lot of nations uh being able to do so um uh it's a fallacy to think that you know this is a highly technical ological problem >> that it would take years and years to, you know, learn how to build a nuclear bomb. It isn't. >> Mhm. >> And um I mean, if you have the right materials, uh so uh just bombing Iran and bombing their nuclear capability, I don't think is going to uh guarantee that Iran will never have a nuclear weapon. >> Mhm. In fact, I don't think there are any ways to guarantee that for any nation. >> It feels to me like you're giving them an excuse to now create nuclear weapons. >> Exactly. Not only Iran, but other nations in the area >> under this idea of nuclear deterrence. >> Yes. You know, I I um there's a gentleman who's a good friend of mine who I've on the had on the show many times, probably about seven times. He's a former CIA officer turned whistleblower got put in prison by the CIA for blowing the whistle on their torture program and his name is John Keryaku. He was recently on my friend Julian Dory's podcast and he was saying he has a close source in the White House who was telling him before the 12-day war, before we bombed those we hit those bunker busters on those on Fordo and those other sites um that Benjamin Netanyahu told Donald Trump that if we didn't strike Iran during that 12-day war in June that Israel was going to use a nuclear weapon and that's what convinced Trump to do the strike. Which is crazy to me. >> This is this is a country the size of New Jersey telling the number one superpower in the world, we are going to use a nuke. By the way, we're not even in the IAEA treaty and we haven't publicly admitted we have nukes and we're going to nuke Iran unless you guys strike. Yeah. Right. In fact, uh some of my research uh that I've I've done over the years, uh uh I should I found documents or at least reports of uh General MacArthur, for example, requesting the use of nukes against the Chinese during the Korean War, requesting, I think it was Eisenhower at the time, uh if he could use uh a nuclear weapon to stop the flow of the Chinese army coming over the Yellow River, wherever it was. >> And then there was another report uh many multiple reports of uh of General West Morland during the Vietnam War requesting Richard Nixon to use nukes to stop the North Vietnamese army from, you know, bringing more and more troops down south. Mhm. >> Both those requests were denied, but the fact that they were even considered, in fact, uh uh there are reports that the Nixon administration had uh detailed plans for that possibility. >> Wow. So again, uh the fact that Netanyahu said he was going to nuke Iran possibly uh was probably instigated by their military uh generals and uh intelligence people. Uh and uh anytime you have a weapon, there's this temptation to use it. Mhm. >> And uh and that's the other risk we're all taking by having these nukes. >> Yeah. Yeah. And there was also those those SCOP meetings that were happening um when JFK was president that I think his brother RFK attended with the joint chiefs of staff where they were trying to come up with a plan to nuke Russia and China, right? And uh they were saying during these SCOP meetings, SIOP, not PSY, folks. Um I forget what it stands for. Just look up see what the SCOP meetings were with uh Kennedy and the Joy Chiefs of Staff. And basically their justification was that if they struck if they struck when that was the point in time when we had the most and they had the least amount of nukes. There was like they were claiming that we would kill about 150 million people and their retaliatory strikes would only kill about 50 to 60 million Americans. So in their sociopathic psychopath justification that was a good thing for the United States of America. Um thank god that didn't happen. >> Yes. >> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 61 John F. Kennedy received top secrets briefing on the SCOP 62 single integrated operational plan for fiscal year 1962. Yeah. The first comprehensive US nuclear war plan presented by Lameitzer. So this uh rings more credence to what might have happened during the Cuban missile crisis in October of uh of 62. Mhm. >> Uh I think Kennedy was ready to uh uh call Kushv's bluff and uh you know use nukes if he had to. >> Really? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh I I know we went to uh uh Defcon. We got to defcon 2. >> Mhm. >> At one point. Uh uh defense readiness condition two, which means um um nuclear war uh is >> Mhm. >> imminent or >> armed forces ready to deploy in less than six hours. Defcon 2 fast-paced, >> right? I think we were we were at that point. >> Defcon 1 is cocked pistol. >> Yeah. >> Maximum readiness readiness. Nuclear war is imminent or has begun. Yeah. >> What did they tell you? Did they tell you like what like if you were worst case scenario, you guys got to pull the trigger on these Minute Mittens. What's next? >> Exactly. They didn't talk about that. >> Never talked about that. The only thing they uh trained us on was there was a a little crawl space. Uh it was filled with um dirt and and uh rocks and it was a hole about this big. Just big enough. It was in the ceiling of our underground capsule. We were in an underground >> concrete and steel capsule. >> Oh, really? How deep underground are we talking? >> 60 ft. >> 60 ft. >> Yeah. And up there at one of the corners, there was this little hole and uh uh after the shooting stopped, so to speak. H >> of course I don't know how we'd know that but uh and whether or not we'd know what the radiation level was because yeah our our locations were probably targets, right? Uh but after things settled down, we could crawl through that hole and uh and get out. We're supposed to be survivable 60 feet underground. Whether this would be true or not, I don't know. >> And um you know, it's fascinating that during the times when we started testing all these nukes um in Nevada and New Mexico and when the Russians started doing it over there, that's the peak in UFO activity and UFO sightings. That's where Rosw, you know, Roswell was right where we started the first uh nuclear nuclear, what was it? The uh the flight group was based out of >> the 509th. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> 509th bomb wing. >> Yeah. >> That was the u wing that dropped the weapons on nuclear weapons on Hiroshima's Nagasaki. >> Yeah. And there's that great map. I'm sure you've seen it, the animation of all of the nuclear detonation tests in history. It like has the timeline at the bottom and it starts from like the 40s, goes through the 50s, 60s, '7s, '8s and it shows on the map where all the nuclear weapons are going off and it also shows all the UFO sightings. >> Mhm. >> Correlated with that, >> which is insane. >> And in fact, a scientist uh just correlated um let's call them uh strange lights in the sky before we had satellites. Uh but through uh uh looking at data from uh telescopic data >> Mhm. >> Um she was able to correlate uh uh more and more of those sightings uh uh with nuclear weapons testing. Yeah. >> Um okay. So explain what happened in what was it 67 in March. >> Yes. >> When that event happened. >> Mhm. >> Can you walk me through that day and what what happened? What went down? >> I'll walk you through my incident. >> Okay. >> Which happened on March 24th, 1967. Um, of course there were two of us uh in control of what we call the launch control facility which includes the uh launch control center which is that capsule underground 60 ft underground. >> Mhm. >> Uh so because we had uh someone had to be uh wide awake um 24 hours a day. Uh, we took turns taking little rest breaks. We had a little cut down there. So, >> my commander, Colonel Fred Mywald, was taking his rest break. Uh, sometime in the evening, I'm going to guess around 9:30, 10:00 in the evening. Uh, I get a call from my top side guard. We had about six guards up there on ground level. Uh, and they're used for uh uh security purposes at the >> We'll let Mike a little bit closer. >> Yeah. Security purposes uh at what we call the launch facility. So, the launch facility is about a mile or two away in a kind of a circle around the launch control center. >> Got it. So, the actual the actual nukes are about a mile away. >> Exactly. Okay. >> And uh so we had 10 uh and they were >> always pretty much always on alert status, meaning they were green, ready to launch. >> Mhm. >> And like I said, we could launch them in seconds. It didn't take long. Um anyway, the guard, the main guard calls down, says, "Sir, we've been seeing some strange lights in the sky." uh overhead, flying directly overhead. Uh they're making really weird maneuvers. They're not airplanes, sir. Uh and I said, "What do you mean?" Uh well, they're uh able to fly very fast, stop in midair, reverse course, make 90 degree turns. There's no engine sound. Um, airplanes don't do that, sir. These are not airplanes. My Oh, what are they? UFOs. I even use that word because we had had reports of uh lights in the sky from uh local residents in Great Falls, Montana. We had reports in uh in the newspaper, the Great Falls Tribune, and that's where we all lived in Great Falls. uh Great Falls or and Malmstrom are about a 100 miles to the west of us where we were. We were near a little town called Roy, Montana. >> Mhm. >> Just due east of Great Falls. Anyway, uh I didn't quite know what to make of his report. I said, "Well, thank you." But he kept saying, "These aren't airplanes. They couldn't be airplanes." Um, and uh, >> how many of them? >> He didn't say how many. He said there were multiple sightings of these things. >> You can pull this up like this. Pull a little closer, too. You don't have to scoot in. You can actually move it to you. >> Okay. >> You all right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Uh, so I thanked him for the report. It was not I didn't consider it a joke or, you know, trying to >> prank or something. >> A prank or something like that. Uh, but basically I said, "Thank you. Uh, let me know if anything more interesting happens and hung up the phone." And >> what time was this? Do you remember? >> 9 9:30, possibly 10, something like that. It was dark outside though. I remember that. Or we didn't have We don't have any windows and we don't have any video up there either at that time, >> right? >> Uh, okay. So, I hang up the phone. Uh, I go back to my book and and uh he calls back about 5 minutes later and says uh and this time he's screaming into the phone. He's yelling. He's uh babbling. He's frightened. And finally, I calm him down. Calm down. Tell me what you're calling about. He said, "Sir, there's a glowing red light. Basically, he didn't say object, he said a light. Pulsating reddish light. Uh I've got all the guys out here. They got their weapons out pointed at this thing and >> their weapons. >> Yeah. Yeah. And uh >> did anyone shoot it? >> Well, that's a possibility. Uh, I'm not certain and I'll tell you why in a minute. But he said it was hovering right above the front gate. It was just sitting there above the front gate. And that front gate is about, I'd say, 12 ft high. Uh, what do I do, sir? What do I do? And you know, he was panicking. He was very panicky. Uh so um of course this was shocking to me but I had to take it very seriously. >> Mhm. >> Uh of course I didn't know what to do. Uh never had an experience like this. Uh I said you're in charge of security up there. Make sure nothing enters the fenced area. Uh do whatever you have to do. uh you're in charge of security of the whole facility. Uh so he said, "Okay, sir, I got to go. One of the guards just got injured." He hangs up the phone. Um I look over at uh just out of, you know, reaction. I look over at the board. We have a status board of uh lights and we had all green lights at that point. Mhm. >> So I turn around and go to the cut where um Colonel Maywalt, my commander, was taking a rest break. Wake him up, start to tell him about these phone calls. And then all of a sudden, we get a a large horn go off and we know what that means. That means that there's a issue with one of the missiles. Look at the board and sure enough, one of them went from green to red. No go. No launch, no no ability to launch. >> The missiles that are a mile away from you right now, >> right? Uh yeah, we have indicator lights. >> Even though this shows the status, >> this thing is here where you guys are. It's not over by the missile silos, >> right? >> Okay. >> Well, not then. >> Okay. >> Uh and then very quickly thereafter, bing bing bing bing, all 10 of them went down. They all went red. We jump up of course and go through our checklist. We have a checklist to do uh when that happens. Uh and uh I noticed there were at two of the launch facilities there were incursion lights which means that possibility somebody or something entered into the fenced area where the missiles are. And uh so I call back upstairs cuz I've got to send guards out there. take a look to drive out there and find out what's going on. And of course, I asked about this red light. He reported he said it just flew off. >> So, just as he picked up the phone, so it was there when these missiles went down >> went down. >> Uh the guards I' sent two crew uh two sets of guards out to to those sites. They got within a mile away and again saw this light or these lights just above those missile sites. Uh and they were scared to death. Still scared. Very frightened. >> The doors were closed above the missiles. Right. There's doors on top of them. >> There is there is a a kind of a hatch that goes over the top of the silo of the missile. >> Mhm. Uh you can see it there on the left. Got it. >> Uh it's on rails normally. >> Mhm. >> Uh but if it got stuck, we'd we'd blow it off in order to launch the missile. But yeah, the So there were UFOs seen by those guards over two of those missile sites and they didn't want to go any further. They were so frightened of these things uh of their experience uh seeing one up close. So, >> how many guards are there at the actual missile sites? >> Uh, well, uh, we had about six to eight, uh, security people upstairs and, uh, we we'd send them out two at a time. >> And they also said they said that these lights were just hovering right above the missiles. >> Exactly. So, we excused them from going any further. Normally, they would go to the site, open the gate, look around. Mhm. >> But in this case, uh, we had them come back to the, uh, launch control facility. >> Uh, and on the way back, they lost radio contact, which is another indication of UFO activity. They were UFOs seem to be able to interfere with radio contact. Anyway, uh, the guard that got injured I later got a report from somebody that uh was aware of this incident and lived in the barracks with these security guards and he said he had remembered hearing two possible scenarios. One is um he injured his hand because his rifle jammed and he tried to clear it and injured his hand somehow. And another scenario was oh well he fired at the object then tried to clear it his weapon. Uh and then another scenario is he did grab the barbed wire fencing that we had around the facility >> and cut his hand. At any rate he had to be sent back to the base for treatment. >> Uh but it was it was a minor thing and it was nothing that the UFO did to him. >> Sure. It was something. >> And you bet you don't you you you you're not sure if anyone actually fired on it. >> I'll tell you why. Um the next morning we were relieved by another crew. The first thing I did is go upstairs and talk to these guys or try to talk to uh the main guard. Anyway, he wouldn't talk to me and he was only an airman. I was a captain or you know, well, not quite then. I was a lieutenant, but >> Mhm. >> uh uh I was his commanding officer and uh he wouldn't talk to me. I said, "What >> what'd you say to him?" >> I said, "God damn it, you tell me what the hell you saw again. I want to hear it." And uh he stammered and finally my commander told me, "You know, he's probably been told not to talk to me." Uh at any rate, we were helicoptered back to the base right away and uh and then ordered to our scorner commander's office. And as I walked in, first thing I said to him was, "What the hell was that? What's going on here?" And he was white as a sheet. He said, "I don't know. I have no idea." And then the there was a guy with him from AFOSI, Air Force Office of Special Investigations, shoved a piece of paper at us, said, "Sign it here." I said, "What's this?" It's a non-disclosure statement. You're never to talk to anybody about this ever. No one in the Air Force, no one uh none of your family members, nobody. Uh I said, "We've already got above top secret clearance. All you have to do is tell me not to talk." I know, >> right? >> No, no, no. you have to sign this. And so we were both ordered basically to sign these NDAs um on penalty of spending a lot of time on uh in uh Levvenworth Prison. >> Wow. >> It had that typed right in there. >> Wow. >> Uh if we ever spoke about it. So we signed and after that we were unable to talk to those guards and they called me the next morning. I don't know how they got my home number. I was living in Great Falls with my wife and they begged me to come out and talk to them and I couldn't. >> Who? >> The guards. >> The guards. >> Yeah. They wanted to talk to me about it, you know, thinking I knew I would know what's the what's going on here. >> Right. Right. >> Of course I didn't. And uh um I had to turn them down, but that really hurt having to turn down these guys. Uh couldn't even talk to >> when the missiles went down and you got all the red lights, they all went offline. >> Mhm. >> What was going through your mind? Had that ever happened to you before? >> Never. I mean I every now and then a missile would uh go no go or go down uh for some technical reason but those were single uh instances never multiple missiles going down for >> never more than one >> never more than one for any reason. I was there for three years and that never happened. Uh these were very reliable systems. And by the way, we didn't lose power at any time. >> H >> this was not a power failure of any kind. We had a we always had power because we had redundant power. We had uh Montana power. We had diesel uh backup diesel generators backup >> and the battery backups also. >> Wow. >> On the missiles. Uh, so they were had triple power uh support. >> Um, how long were they down for? >> Well, again, uh, we were relieved by another crew. I can't tell you exactly, but in general, >> you're not allowed to say how long they were down for. I would say uh uh a day, possibly two, because we had to send crews out there physically. >> A day or two? >> Yes. >> Whoa. >> Because we had to send crews to each of the launch facilities to go through a targeting procedure. And that was a little bit involved, but you know, not it took a little time for each missile. Let's put it that way. But there was no damage. No damage to equipment >> once you got How were you able to get everything back online? >> Like I said, they went through a procedure >> and again through checklist procedure. >> Mhm. >> But they have to go through uh retargeting the missile to make sure it's targeted properly. Uh, >> got it. >> But again, there were never reports afterwards. Uh, and of course, we'd go out there about every uh 3 or 4 days. Uh, usually to the same flight, Oscar flight in my case. And uh there were no reports of any equipment failures as a result of this incident. >> That's wild. And I'm sure you were thinking about it non-stop after that. >> For a while, yes. And then after a while, I got thinking about 30 years in Levvenworth prison. >> Mhm. >> And focused more on keeping my mouth shut. >> Right. What finally convinced you to talk about this publicly? >> Okay, so I I resigned my commission in 1971 from the Air Force. >> I went to work for aerospace companies first and then for FAA for over 20 years. >> Oh wow. >> And then I decided to become a teacher, a high school teacher in math. And so I was I went to the University of Washington. Happened to be in Seattle at the time. went to the University of Washington and signed up. And after that, I walked through the bookstore at the University of Washington bookstore. And as I was walking through on one of the shelves, I saw a book called Above Top Secret by Timothy Good. And that looked interesting to me. I picked the book up, happened to open it to page 301 of that book, and on that page was written uh a short paragraph about missiles being disabled by UFOs in 1967. And bingo, I remember that. That was my incident. Yeah. And I said, "What's it doing in this book? It's, you know, for sale to for the public to read. This is supposed to be highly classified." That's what I was told. This is highly classified. And uh but it sounded exactly like what happened to me. At least the gist of it and what I remember of it. Remember this is 27 years later. And this book was citing the exact incident at Malmstrom or a different one. >> Uh, well, I thought it was my incident. >> It turned out later, and I didn't find this out for two years later, it turned out that this was a different incident that I had never heard about. >> Same year. >> Yes. >> Wow. Same at Malmstrom, though. >> Yes. Yes. So I go home and right away I spill the beans to my wife and I say this look look at this this this is my incident. This happened to me while I was in the Air Force etc. blah blah blah and uh uh because I was so confident that if it's in this book it's been declassified right >> must have been. Yeah. No, but I thought it was. And so I got a hold of a guy at MUON Mutual UFO Network and uh an investigator and we agreed to write to the Air Force under the Freedom of Information Act requesting documents about this incident with uh in 1967. But we didn't say a word about UFOs. We just said, you know, missiles being shut down for unusual reasons. Um, the Air Force wrote back and said, you know, this is classified. However, since it's been so long, we're going to declassify it and we'll send you documents. >> Wow. >> And they did. And so I got receiving documents on the Echolight shutdown. Echo flight. Echo E for echo. All right. And uh I still thought it was my incident even though Echo was not in my squadron. >> But I didn't remember that really. >> You remember I u this was 27 years later and I >> Yeah. >> had consciously or subconsciously try to forget what I knew about it because I didn't want to talk about it at some bar after having a few beers. Right. >> Right. >> So, I started going public. I gave an interview to the Great Falls Trabune. I gave an interview to Art Bell, Artbell Show, uh, etc. And then, uh, but I still didn't even remember the name of the guy that was in the capsule with me when it happened. Mhm. >> It wasn't until 1996 I finally contacted uh uh Colonel Maywald uh who had retired a colonel uh and uh he was the guy that was with me. I gave him a call and said and I've got a a recording of that by the way. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. I've got a recording of that. >> Yeah. Did you bring it with you? >> Yes. >> We should play it. Yeah, >> you can go you can continue uh uh explain. >> Okay. So, I go through what I think uh happened or I remember happening and he listens and then at the end he says, "Yeah, that's that's about what I remember, but we weren't at Echo Flight, >> right? >> We were at Oscar Flight, >> right?" >> I said, "What you mean there were two of these incidents?" because I had the documentation saying echo was in uh on March 16th, 1967. That's when that happened. Uh and at that point, I didn't know the date of the Oscar flight, my my incident, but he said, "No, we were assigned to Oscar and we never went to echo." Uh so later on through another witness man by the name of Robert Jameson who actually brought the Oscar flight back up on alert. He he and his crew went out there and and did these um targeting uh startups. Um confirmed the date of March 24th, 1967 for my incident. So that was 8 days after the echo incident. Within eight days, we had two incidents involving UFOs shutting down missiles. >> And you were just off that day or what? On the 24th. >> No, I wasn't off. >> Well, why wouldn't have you? How How did you not know about it at the time? >> The date you mean? >> Yeah. if it was only 8 days later >> because it was 24 years or 27 years after the fact. I don't remember the date of my incident. >> Yeah. But I No, but there was two incidents. >> Yeah. >> So the 18th, I mean the 16th was the echo incident. >> Mhm. We later found out through another incident that was written up in the Great Polish Trabune called the Belt incident where a truck driver sees a UFO uh pacing his truck. The UFO lands in a ravine. He goes out, takes a look. He calls the highway patrol. He calls the Air Force. They all take a look. See the object down there. And that happened on the 24th. >> Ah, I see. >> And when Jameson was called in to do his job and go um bring the Oscar missiles back up on alert, he remembers that incident happened on that day. >> Got it. >> Same day as the Oscar incident. So that's why how we were able to nail down the 24th. >> Wow. >> Eight days later. So within eight days we lost 20 nuclear weapons to UFOs. Not only that um in uh 1966 around September of ' 66 at Minot Air Force Base. >> Where's that one? Where's that base at? What state? >> North Dakota. >> North Dakota. Okay. >> Yeah. This is the uh what's called a belt sighting. That's the truck driver. I just told you about. >> Uh he gave an interview to the Great Falls Tribune. >> Um >> and so that was well documented. But in 1966 there was another incident at Ward Air Force Base. David Shindelli because I went came forward. He came forward and talked about that incident and he uh relieved the crew who lost all 10 of their missiles during UFO sighting. >> Wow. >> And one more in uh early 1966 again at Melmstrom. Let's say January of ' 66. I'm not sure the date, but uh we've got another witness I'll tell you about in a minute uh who talks about another 10 missiles going down during UFO sighting again at Malstrom at Alpha Flight. Okay. So within the span of two years, two years UFOs have come over and shut down 10 missiles four times. 40 missiles and that's I I can justify that. I can I can give you evidence to that. Now also wasn't there some sort of um investigation that went down right after that where Boeing came in you said. >> Okay. So one of the documents we got um uh said was from sack headquarters. There was a telegram and it said we've got to find out what caused these missiles to go down because uh we don't know and this is of grave concern right this is the very basis of our national security these these nuclear weapons. So uh he asked by name that Boeing get involved. Boeing had the overall contract on the minute man system. Oh, >> they were a top level contractor and uh they assigned people to look into this and uh two of these engineers uh or one of these engineers rather decided to do a bench test on the guidance system because that was the readout we were getting. We had a way of getting um you know a verbal readout for why the missile was shut down and the readout was guidance and control system failure. >> So they they looked at all the pieces of hardware on the guidance system. We had an inertial guidance system. We didn't have GPS. We didn't have satellites at the time for navigation or guidance after the missiles were launched. Right. >> Mhm. >> So they depended on an inertial system which required gyroscopes, velocity meters, accelerometers, things like that that after the missile was launched uh would use this data to determine whether or not it was on course to hit the target. Yes. >> Mhm. >> And the processor for that was something called the logic coupler. Okay. So, um, they pulled a Boeing did a bench test on the logic coupler and shot it with various levels of electrical signals and were able to come up with a particular signal for a particular duration would uh momentarily switch off the logic coupler. And that would could have shut down the missiles again because it would uh shut down of the guidance system. >> Mhm. >> So that was speculative by Boeing. They sure >> they didn't know for sure. >> Uh but they did make a statement that this is a possibility. And this is in one of the reports I received. Uh however they had no idea how this signal could have been injected into each of the missiles separately within >> simultaneous >> simultaneously basically >> because the uh cabling system that we had was triply shielded against electromagnetic interference from the outside. But that's what Boeing concluded that um an external signal was sent to each of these missiles separately. >> Wow. >> And again, this happened 40 times. >> Yep. >> Uh so they they >> this was not a this was not a uh some kind of a test >> that the Air Force did >> or could have done. Yeah. Um, so that was another speculation that this could have been some sort of an EMP test. Is that right? >> No. No. Um, well, there was uh, you know, I think I think the origin of that story came from um, you know, there was a Condan investigation going on at the time, right? And uh it's good we talk about this. Edward Condan uh you know about the Condan investigation. >> No. >> Okay. 1966 the University of Colorado was awarded a contract by the Air Force to look into the UFO question. the Air Force being had been getting a lot of static from the public uh including Gerald Ford uh Michigan uh where they had uh um many incidents of UFO sightings and uh the Air Force promised to do a so-called scientific study of the UFO question. It was uh so anyway, it was what the Air Force really wanted was to get out of the uh uh of having to answer to Congress or the public about these things because more and more people were reporting UFOs and they really wanted to whitewash the whole subject and and just basically say this >> there's a lot of >> nothing >> sure >> nothing to look at. Uh, so they made a deal with Condan and I've got this documented in my book that if he took on the UFO study, Edward Condan was a professor of physics at the University of Colorado at the time, but he had been um uh he had been part of the Manhattan Project at one point. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. and uh he got fired for security reasons and he was uh uh u accused of being a Russian spy by Jed Garoover. He lost his security clearance. So the Air Force went back to Condan who was now teaching physics at University of Colorado. >> Mhm. >> Uh and said, "Look, you want to get your security clearance back, take on this UFO study for us, but uh do it in a way that we'd like to uh get out of the business of reporting UFOs." >> Basically, that's what deal was struck there. >> Okay. And I've got some evidence to show that. >> Wow. >> Um anyway, this started in ' 66. >> Mhm. >> It ended in ' 68. Cotton issued an official report and didn't mention a thing about UFOs shutting down missiles at Belmstrom Air Force Base or any other base. Didn't mention anything about that. even though his own investigator was informed of these missile shutdowns by a man by the name of Ray Fowler. Ray Fowler was uh working for Sylvania Corporation who had a contract on the electrical systems of the Minute Man system. and he had people working for him stationed at Malmstrom Air Force Base when these two incidents occurred who reported to him that these were uh UFO sightings during these shutdowns. uh Fowler decided to contact the investigator of Condan, tell him all about it, gave him names, phone numbers, people to talk to about it, and the investigator did nothing of significance >> about it. Fowler was angry after this report came out in late ' 68 and uh decided to give an interview to the Christian Science Monitor in 1973. Um even though he was risking losing his job and also the hire of the Air Force. U he gave this interview. It was published in 1973 and that's how Timothy Good found out about it and put it in his book Above Top Secret. >> Wow. >> And that's how I was able to read that in there. Uh so yeah >> at what point did you start to learn about these uh same types of scenarios happening overseas? >> So I did a lot of research after I went public. I started researching the subject. I also worked with a man called Robert Hastings who wrote a book >> UFOs and nukes. Right. >> UFOs and nukes. Excellent book. Uh >> he interviewed like 160 something nuclear officers. >> A lot. And uh after I went public with um uh you know podcast and like um um what's his name? I forgot. Um Artbell. >> Mhm. people started contacting me and I found out more about other incidents uh and also from Hastings. Uh so in my latest book I've identified at least 13 other uh incidents involving UFOs and nuclear facilities and go into some detail. One of the ones you might want to see on a um animated video >> is the incident that happened in 1964 out of Vandenberg Air Force Base. Robert Jacobs. >> Yes. >> You may have heard of that. >> Yes, I've heard of Bob Jacobs. >> Uh >> the Air Force basically tried to like deny that he ever worked for them, right? >> Uh probably. >> Yeah, that's what I >> That's what they usually do. They try to deny everything. Uh but um he has also gone public. Oh, here I think he's showing it up there. >> But he has >> this a file that you provided us. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Is that rain? >> The nose don't separate. >> That's shaft. the >> chaff flew out in front of we saw this as obviously reflections of light rippling like that and then we saw the dummy warhead flying along. that's going between six and 8,000 miles an hour at that point and it's on the the fringe of space and suddenly into that that frame an object flew in chasing the chaff the warhead and so on at the same speed and in polar orbit it fired a beam of light at the warhead. the the beam of light struck that. The object flew up, shot another beam of light at the dummy warhead, went around this, shot another beam of light at it, went down, shot a beam of light, and then flew out the same way it had to come in, at which time the dummy warhead fell out of the frame. >> Whoa. Yes, I've heard about this this event. >> Yeah. And this uh was an animation you just saw, but he actually took video of this uh real video because he had uh very specialized equipment. And this was taken during an Atlas missile launch. And Atlas was used al for strategic weapon deliveries um early on before the Minute Man. Um and and you see the outcome here. Uh he saw this video after it was uh developed with his commander. His commanders backed him up on this major management and uh but they showed it with CIA agents involved. after showing this uh the actual video uh the CIA took the video and it was never seen again >> by them. >> Um but yeah, what what was the Air Force's response to or the government's Did they have did they ever say anything to you after you came out with this stuff? >> No. >> Never contact No one ever contacted you. Nothing. No one ever tried to discredit you or say that you didn't >> Well, >> you're a liar. >> Well, you've heard of the Wall Street Journal report uh that this was all >> Yeah. This was like last year, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. Uh whether or not the government had anything to do with that, I don't know. I can't tell you. But uh >> uh from time to time, people have tried to discredit this. But >> I if you look at my case closely, I've got a lot of documentation supporting it and I've got witness testimony supporting it. >> Mhm. >> Uh including the principles. Uh Colonel Walter Feele was in charge of the Echollight. I've got an audio tape of him with his permission uh telling about his incident at Echo Flight where all 10 missiles were shut down during uh UFO sightings right over the facilities. Um the other uh incident I talked about at May not that gentleman has come forward publicly he's written a book about it about that incident. and he's named name names of you know those guys that were in the capsule when the incident happened. Um, so the the 13 that I've identified include uh uh cases like the one at um Schusterberg, the Netherlands uh 1996 I think um where there were 12 airmen that actually saw the object uh fly down the flight line. um slowly shining uh again laser beam. >> Mhm. >> Uh where nukes were stored, nuclear weapons. >> Wow. >> Were stored. Uh this is during the Cold War, of course. >> Right. >> Uh all the incidents I've reported on are documented or supported by witnesses. Can you explain what what was the the gist of that Wall Street Journal article? I mean, I I I I know that they tried to say that um or somebody tried to say, who was it? It was Arrow that said this. Arrow with Sean Kurpatre, right? They said that there was an EMP that was wheeled up into the front of to the gates of the Air Force base and the purpose of that was to test an EMP on live nuclear weapons to see if it would work or they said it could have been some sort of a Air Force hazing ritual. Right. There's two options. >> Well, neither one of those make any sense. But uh I I think uh you know I talked to the guy that wrote that book. I can't remember his name or notic the article. >> Yeah, >> I forgot his name now. But >> pull up pull up the Wall Street Journal article, Steve. He'll find it. >> Yeah, he I gave him an interview. He wanted to interview me. I said, "Sure, Wall Street Journal. Yeah, tell my story." Uh but then he he took what I gave him and uh then talked to I think it was Arrow. I think I remember him saying that. I don't know whether it was Fitzgerald or not. >> Yep. >> Fitzpatrick. >> Fitzpatrick >> or Kirkpatrick. I forgot. >> Kirk Patrick. Uh and uh basically what somebody told him was that uh uh the missiles uh what what the guards saw was really a device used to uh generate some millions of volts of electromagnetic energy. uh to hit our facility to see if it would withstand it. >> And supposedly because during a nuclear blast, a very large um EMP is also released. >> Mhm. >> Electromagnetic pulse in an actual nuclear blast. >> Right. So the thought was that uh when our facility might be hit in retaliation if we launch missiles uh missiles will be launched against our facilities and that EMP could do a lot of damage. Well, the Air Force understood this and they did EMP testing at test sites. They would never have done EMP testing in an operational facility. >> Right. >> Take that risk of putting them off offline. >> Mhm. >> Right. >> And damaging uh very expensive equipment. >> Right. >> So that's why it doesn't make sense >> without the >> officers knowing about it. >> Plus the guards would have seen them set that equipment up. It's a very involved piece of equipment. Uh it needs uh uh super structure to support it and all kinds of things. They would have been out there days uh constructing that part of it, >> right? >> And it would have been noticed by the guards. The guards would have reported it to us. We were in command of the site, >> right? >> We had no reports. So this is the article. >> Yeah. >> Joel Joelman. >> Yeah. That's the guy you talked to. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Very odd that they would come out th this this late in the game and try to discredit this whole thing or paint some sort of a false narrative about it. >> Very odd. >> So like I say, I don't know if the government was involved in that or not. >> Yeah. I think actually Jesse pointed out on one of his videos that um one of the people that was cited or one of the sources for this article worked uh for psychological operations for um a big aerospace contractor or a big >> defense contractor. >> I think it was um Grumman. What's the what's that one called? Something Grumman. >> Northrup. >> Northrup. Yeah, Northrup. She was a psychological operations person on her LinkedIn. Jesse pulled that up. >> Mhm. >> Um, I got to pee real quick. We'll be right back. When we get back, we should play that audio tape of the guy that was with you. I think that'd be great for people to hear. >> Sure. >> All right, we'll be right back. All right, we're back. Uh, we're going to play this audio tape. >> This is the guy that was working with you that day. >> Oh, which one is this? >> This is Fal. Oh, that's Echlight. That's the one that happened eight days earlier. >> Okay. Okay. Cool. >> Because they were doing maintenance on I don't know the guidance cans or something and the maintenance crews were staying over and there were security and maintenance on site on both two of the 10 sites. >> Mhm. And when the first one went down and I talked with the security out there, they had report of this UFO hovering over the site and said, "Yeah, right. What are you guys drinking out there?" >> And we struck uh strike teams to both of the sites that have been occupied. >> Mhm. >> And both strike teams, I didn't tell them what we had heard, you know, via the Last radio. And I told them, you know, go to get within a mile of sight to call back in on the VHF. And uh they both had reported too. So, we had two maintenance crews, two security troops on site, and two strike teams all reporting it. >> Is that right? >> Yeah. >> Do you remember any of the names of any of those guys? >> Nope. >> You don't? >> Wow. >> So, he had quite a few people reporting this UFO over one of the sites. >> Uh, this was just before all 10 of his missiles shut down. >> Wow. That's crazy. What did so what did you think they were? >> Did you have any ideas in your mind like around that time? Had you been interested in this stuff at all? Like were you ever >> was this in the zeitgeist at all or or like what did you make of it? >> Like I said, we had had uh reports that were printed up in the Great Falls Tribune that week before I went out and, you know, was on duty. uh of people seeing lights in the sky. >> Yeah. >> Strange lights, including red lights. Um so yeah, I I did make that connection >> after thinking about a little bit and yeah, I was interested especially when I saw a few years later, Close Encounters, >> Third Kind, I suppose, >> but I was I was zipped up. Like I couldn't talk about it. I couldn't I didn't even want to think about it really. >> Right. >> Yeah. Yeah. Because there's multiple options to what those things were. Like was it some sort of top secret US tech? Was it some foreign top secret tech? >> Sure. >> Or was it another civilization, >> you know, messing with us? >> Right. >> What's your best guess >> now? Mhm. After all these years, >> it's another civilization out there. >> Yeah. >> That is visiting us and are concerned about us destroying this planet through nuclear war. And uh for many reasons uh probably some we don't even understand. But this is a special planet. We have an immense diversity of life here. It's a a great place for life and and sentient beings. Uh and uh we're about to just obliterate it. >> Have you ever talked to any other people like yourself that haven't gone public that are afraid to go public? >> Oh, yeah. Yes. and what kind of things have they seen? >> Okay, so I'll tell you about a man I call Tex. All right, that's not his real name. Uh, but he was one of the uh maintenance people that were brought out to um one of the Echo Flight launch facilities to go through this startup procedure. And so he goes into the maintenance bay, takes out his checklist, and starts going through it. and is almost to the point where um uh he's about to bring the bird back up on alert green. >> Mhm. >> However, at this point, the missile shuts down again. He doesn't understand it. And then his guard, he's got a guard upstairs, you know, uh, and his guard shakes the ladder and, uh, says, "Look up here, sir." And looks up and there's this orange ball of light hovering right above him. He said he can feel the static electricity from this thing. >> Whoa. >> Yeah. And he goes up, takes a look. He says, "Oh my god." report this, you know, back to the base to the guard. And so the guard says, "Uh, okay, sir." And then he tells the guard, "Uh, I'm going to go back down and continue this important job of getting this missile back and ready to go." Right? So, he had to go back down. This object is still up there, right? He goes through his checklist at the same spot that it shut down before it shut down again. He said he tried this multiple times and while this object was still up there and it the missile would simply not go further than this one particular point on the checklist. And later he told me, he said, "That thing, whatever it was, knew exactly how our systems worked precisely and how to how to disable them." Um, uh, this guy would make a great witness. He was, uh, head of an aerospace company. He was CEO of an aerospace company. Uh, and, um, >> way after this event occurred. >> Oh, yeah. This is after he got out of the Air Force. Um >> big aerospace company, one of the big >> Well, it was, let's say, uh an important one. Uh >> but uh he uh at times got real close to say, I'm going to go forward, but I'm going to go public. But each time he backed down and uh that's where he stands today. He doesn't want to you know, mess up his life basically by coming forward. >> It's crazy stuff, man. >> Yeah. any other folks that you've talked to since you've come out with this who have maybe confided in you things that they're afraid to come forward and expose their reputation or potential risk going to jail for or >> um >> maybe not necessarily related to nuclear events but anything else. Let me just say that without going into too much detail that um one in particular person I'm thinking of was able to confirm to me to my satisfaction that he had actually flown um a uh remanufactured or re-engineered object that operated very similar or to UFO. Uh, I I'll just let it go at that. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> You trust this guy, huh? >> Absolutely. >> You know him personally like or was it just like a random guy that contacted you? >> I knew him very personally. >> Wow. He said he flew a backineered craft. >> Yes. And I believe >> that's so bomb. That's that's that's so crazy, man. >> Mhm. >> That's a lot. That's a lot. What do you make of uh Trump coming out and saying he's going to release all these Epstein or not Epste UFO files? Those two. It's a Freudian slip. Yeah. Yeah. He said he was going to release the Epstein files, but uh they're trying to trying to pull all that. >> I'll just wait and see what happens. uh you know he made he's made a lot of promises that don't pan out. Well you know it's not just him. >> Sure. Of course not. >> Uh there's something called the legacy program where um major aerospace companies have been given access to you know downcraft and parts of downcraft. >> I'm sure there's stuff that he that he didn't even tell the president about. >> Yeah. and and there's a lot people aren't going to tell the president, >> right? >> Uh because it, you know, may have committed crimes or done things that they aren't proud of. So, um >> he may uh be able to release some files, but uh there may be a lot that still could be hidden. >> You think it'll be some sort of a a limited hangout or some sort of public public distraction? Maybe, maybe >> something that really has no >> Yeah, we'll just have to wait and see. >> Yeah, >> but that's not going to keep me quiet. I'm going to keep talking about this. >> Mhm. >> What I've experienced, and I think other witnesses will, too. And we might we might see some new witnesses come forward, too. >> So, I think that if we're going to get disclosure, I think it's going to be from people like us, you know. Mhm. Um, yeah. So, so on Robert on Robert Hastings specifically, what year did his book UFOs and Nukes come out? Do you remember? Was that the '9s? He he came out with that or was that the early 2000s? >> I can't remember. >> I can't remember either. Uh, probably the 90s. I've got a copy at home, but I >> And he interviewed you for that, right? >> Oh, yeah. We've known each other a long time. >> Mhm. >> In fact, I contacted him first during one of his lectures um and talked to him about it and he's the one that told me that u he knows of a guy that can back up my story. And that turned out to be Robert Jameson. That that guy I told you about was involved in uh retargeting the miss my my missiles at Oscar fly. >> Wow. Yeah, it is interesting like we were talking about before the correlation um of between UFO sightings around the world and all the nuclear tests and nuclear buildup. It seems to be like this was something that was happening during the Cold War. It doesn't seem like it's happening anymore, >> right? But you also don't you don't hear a lot about nuclear threats anymore either. >> Well, yes, you do. You hear >> I mean other than >> Putin threatening it every other day. Uh >> uh but um >> yeah, but it's nothing nothing near what we were talking about with the the Cold War between Soviet Union and the United States. >> Well, okay. in uh I think it was 68 may have been 67 uh there were over some 35,000 35,000 nuclear weapons available >> right >> between the US and the Soviet Union and that number has gone down substantially you know to the maybe a couple of thousand >> Mhm. Uh but like I mentioned before, the uh the number of countries that have access to these is growing and will probably keep growing because of um >> Is this unlistenable? >> Oh, no. We can clean it up. >> Okay, cool. It's raining right now. It's really loud. >> Is that rain? >> That's rain. Yeah. >> Really? Wow. Uh yeah. the number of pe uh countries that have nuclear weapons will I predict will increase because of this concept of nuclear deterrence. The US right now is able to flex its muscle uh because it has overwhelming uh you know nuclear power uh nuclear weapons and people are afraid uh of that. But countries like Japan have talked about building nuclear weapons. Um I think uh possibly Saudi Arabia will be in a position to develop nuclear weapons in the near future because they've they've already acquired nuclear energy technology and they're using that. And one of the results of using uh plutonium rods for example to uh produce nuclear energy is that uh it increases the the weapons uranium in those rods that could be used for dirty bombs for example. M >> and one of the problems we have right now is getting rid of uh the uh these old so-called old uh uh nuclear rods uh and >> Mhm. >> how to dispose of it after its useful life. >> Yeah. It's interesting too because this, you know, there's not just there's also sightings of reported UFO sightings around uh like nuclear power plants and things like this like the Fukushima >> Yes. >> meltdown or or the earthquake that caused them to Fukushima >> Yeah. >> uh emergency in Japan, >> right? >> Um Chernobyl, there was sites. Um, and then also allegedly I heard that close to that aerial school in Zimbabwe, there was some sort of a plutonium mine or something like that or they were mining some sort of nuclear materials there near there. So that's just like a s a correlation. It doesn't necessarily have to do with nuclear weapons sites. It also has to do with like nuclear power plants and yes >> other things like that. And you know, nuclear nuclear weapons aren't just a threat to human lives, but they're a threat to like the Earth as an organism itself, which is interesting. You know, it doesn't seem like whatever these things are are interested like are they interested in saving humans or are they just interested in saving the Earth as a planet? That's my question. >> Well, um, if you pollute the planet with radioactive material from a nuclear war, >> right, >> uh, it's essentially going to, you know, kill a lot of different kinds of life. >> Now, I don't know what your uh, spiritual beliefs are, but of course, life is life. And uh uh there are a lot of even vegetation important vegetation that we have on this planet that um you know I'm sure they don't want to see destroyed. >> Yeah. So, >> well, there's it's interesting because like all the species of animals on this planet and like the plants and the trees and things from like phytolanton to all the fish and the ocean and the animals on Earth, they're they're all interdependent upon each other. And there's this symbiosis in nature and like this balance to nature. >> And it's we are the one thing that seems to cause the most imbalance from whether it be fishing, poaching, nuclear power plants, things like this. It's like it's almost like we don't really fit into this puzzle, right? It's like we are the ones that are dis like are the biggest threat to it. It's like it's it doesn't seem it seems so strange, right? Even like just >> the the the evolution of human beings like we're so far away from from, you know, the next the next ape down the line from us. There's such a giant gap. >> Uh yeah. So, but we're in control right now. >> Yeah. supposedly uh we're not really doing a very good job of being in control or being uh you know supportive of keeping this planet the way it should be kept. >> It doesn't seem like we are in control. Like who's in control? >> Yeah. >> You and I certainly aren't in control. >> No. >> And I it doesn't seem like the politicians that we think are, you know, running these countries are even in control. Doesn't seem like the president is in control. And you know, how many layers up does it go? And and who really is in control? And people and and imagine there are people, right? There's probably people right now sitting on this earth, human beings like you and me, >> who know the truth about what these things are that were showing up at these nuclear sites, right? >> Yes. There's probably pe there's probably a handful of people at least that know the truth about all of this stuff. All of the UFO incidences, all of the abduction incidents that have been reported, all this stuff. >> Yep. I agree. >> And they keep these secrets and they they they know this stuff. A >> And are they in control? >> No, I don't think they're in control either. Um because it boils down to politics, right? It boils down to uh optimally in a democracy the people of the world uh should have enough information or knowledge uh to make the decisions uh that we need to make >> or do the people maybe I mean according to to your your source who was the CEO of the aerospace corporation. If these aerospace corporations have access to downed reverse engineered machines and and you know have it's it's been explained to me how the Pentagon and how the US government has pushed all of this stuff into private organizations to avoid Freedom of Information Act requests. Right? So if these private companies have all this information and know the truth about what going on about what is going on and they're shielded from the law because they have to be shielded from the public. Where does that go when you have, you know, multinational billion dollar capitalist organizations who are are holding potentially the secrets of the universe in their hands. you know, who are also paying the people that are quote running our country. >> How do you h like how do you fit this into your worldview? >> Well, uh I think uh we shouldn't be naive. Uh the world is being controlled by um those who have the the the money really and the influence and the knowledge in these secrets, right? Because these secrets have to be very valuable. Yes. >> Mhm. um for making weaponry, you know, advanced weaponry or maybe even changing our understanding of physics. >> Yeah. >> Uh highly valuable information and uh yeah, they're going to try to hang on to that information as long as they can in any way they can because of it of this value. Do you think there's any sort of layer above the governments, right, of the governments of China, Russia, the United States, a layer above that basically shares all this knowledge and they agree on what they're going to tell their people? >> Yes. >> Yeah, I think so, too. I'm convinced that there is a what I call an international UFO cabal >> or a group of people uh who are in the know about this subject like you're talking about. >> Mhm. um that are controlling things um uh very powerful people uh that are controlling uh the use of these secrets and um but I think it is it's an international organization. >> Yeah. And I think they're probably siloing certain >> aspects of science as well and scientific research. >> Right. There was this email I was looking at yesterday. Steve, you could probably find this pretty easily. Uh there was an email that Jeffrey Epstein sent to someone where he was bragging about how he killed cold fusion. There was some researcher or some scientist who was like on the brink of developing and proving cold fusion um in a test. And apparently Epstein got a hold of this and was able to kill it. Hm. Based on a newly released document, Epstein claimed in an email to have played a role in stopping funding for cold fusion research in the late 1980s. The claim in an email exchange, Epstein mentioned, "I killed Pawns years ago," referring to Stanley Ponds and Martin Flechman, the scientist behind the 1989 University of Utah cold fusion experiment according to analysis of these documents. >> Yeah, it's also citing Instagram though. I was looking for something. >> No, this was all over X. No, these were declass. This was a literal declassified email. >> Okay. M. >> So, I mean, when you have stuff like that coming out, it's like, what are we doing here? Um, Bob, thank you for doing this, man. I really enjoyed it. >> I have something I I want to share, Bob. And and and you know, maybe it'll help um him feel less gaslighted by the government. So, I asked the chat GPT, well, it's not chat GPT, it's whatever this, you know, Google is. And uh I asked it if EMP weapons existed back then. And it basically no, no EMP weapons existed in 1967 other than what can be produced from a nuclear weapon, >> right? >> Nuclear bomb. >> No non-nuclear EMPs existed in 1967. >> Specifically, the research for non-uclear other also called just pulse power weapons was in its infancy. Research >> no mobile deployment. So, it couldn't have been wheeled to the facility or even thrown up into the air. And 30 ft is what I imagine how how high it would have to be. >> Mhm. And it says that uh it would have to be detonated or ignited um so far up in like was it 400 kilometers into the uh Earth's uh atmosphere in order for it to affect a four mile uh circle in order to knock out all of those missiles because it would use the atmospheric um uh the Earth's >> what is it called? The Earth's >> the magnetosphere. the magnetosphere to amplify the effect. So, humans can't produce something that can deep dig deep into the ground deep enough to turn off those missiles, >> right? >> Not even today, >> right? >> Certainly not back in 1967. >> You're vindicated. >> That's crazy. It's crazy that these kind of articles can come out this sort of just like fake propaganda >> um on in a in an in the Wall Street Journal, no less. Yeah, >> it's insane. >> Um, is there anything else that we should uh discuss before we wrap things up or tell people about? >> Well, I um can't think of anything uh right now. Uh I'm still open to uh testifying of course in front of Congress and the public under oath uh about my incidents and I think other people would also testify under oath. Um >> yeah. Had they had any of the officers like you that were stationed at nuclear bases go in front of Congress yet? >> Uh not in front of Congress. Like I said, there myself and others have testified to the Arrow group. Uh, you know, I gave him a two and a half hour briefing uh uh sent them over uh 21 pieces of evidence that I have. >> Mhm. and uh they said it was going to be an official part of their record, but as of yet they haven't reported on it uh or given uh my report to the Congress. I have to individuals such as um uh Burles, Congressman Burles and uh and others. Uh, and uh, like I said, uh, I hope they have more hearings. I hope uh, President Trump follows through and with his promise to release UFO information and we'll just see what happens. >> Mhm. Amen. Well, thanks again. Is there any website that we can direct people to to find your stuff or get a hold of you? >> I have a YouTube channel. Uh I did have a website but I discontinued it. I do have a YouTube channel though under under my name. Uh and it has a lot of video of not only my incident but other incidents uh people might be interested in seeing. >> Fantastic. >> Well, thanks again for doing this. I very much enjoyed it and uh we'll link all your stuff below. That's all, folks.