Ex-Scientologists & Ex-Jehovah's Witnesses | Middle Ground

Here is a chronological list of distinct topics, claims, and statements from the transcript:

1. Speaking out against Scientology makes one a target, leading to harassment like attack tweets, property damage, and travel disruptions; if legal, Scientology would kill its opponents.
2. A speaker's former religion was more of a cult than a faith.
3. The distinction between a cult and a faith lies in the level of control exercised over members' individual lives.
4. Cults employ control over behavior, information, thoughts, and emotions, often through fear, obligation, and guilt, leading to dictated expression of faith and shame for non-compliance.
5. A speaker became a Jehovah's Witness at age 8 when their parents joined, left at 38, and described the experience as a tough path marked by mental and emotional abuse due to control.
6. Another speaker got involved with Scientology at age four, left at 42, and worked for the church for 25 years.
7. Scientology was perceived as a practical set of scientific tools and literal truths, not a belief system or faith.
8. Scientology recruitment emphasized that it is an applied practice that works, unlike Christianity where belief in stories is required.
9. Scientology is described as an applied religious philosophy, not necessarily a faith at its core.
10. Control is central to Scientology, which functions as a totalitarian extremist belief system where correct application is believed to yield results.
11. A core cult element is the belief that personal failings, rather than systemic issues, are responsible for any lack of progress or negative outcomes.
12. Scientology's core principle is that individuals are solely responsible for every event in their lives and the universe, often framed as "what did you do to pull this in."
13. Scientology utilized a "Rehabilitation Project Force" (RPF), described as a sequestered prison-like re-education system involving hard physical labor, forced confessions (including past lives), and restricted communication, with some individuals spending years there.
14. Assignment to the RPF is mandatory, and interrogations, sometimes involving detailed confessions of personal actions (like masturbation as a teenager) are common punitive practices across all levels of Scientology, which can amount to child abuse.
15. While both groups exhibit cult-like parallels, Jehovah's Witnesses are characterized as a low-income religion that targets vulnerable individuals, such as those grieving, to recruit new members.
16. In contrast to Jehovah's Witnesses, Scientology aims to "make the able more able" and primarily recruits individuals who are financially capable of paying for services.
17. Scientology requires payment for all services and a costly membership to the International Association of Scientologists, resulting in a significantly higher average annual donation per member compared to other religions, including the Catholic Church.
18. Scientology operates like a pyramid scheme.
19. A cult element in Jehovah's Witnesses is shunning, where individuals are expected to attend meetings for a year without acknowledgment from anyone, including friends and family.
20. During shunning, minor children living at home can have limited communication with family, excluding spiritual topics, but some are even isolated to the extent of needing separate eating arrangements.
21. The shunning process involves submitting repeated letters to elders, which are rarely initially accepted, serving to "break" individuals into submission and prevent future defection or perceived sin.
22. Jehovah's Witnesses rely on coerced labor, such as door-to-door ministry and building Kingdom Halls, from which the organization profits financially.
23. Members were shamed out of pursuing higher education, instead being compelled to dedicate significant time to door-to-door ministry.
24. Individuals were recruited to work for the church directly out of high school, with higher education being dismissed as unnecessary, under the premise of "saving the world."
25. Higher education is discouraged because it might expose members to subjects like psychology, sociology, or history, which could challenge Scientology's teachings, as L. Ron Hubbard is presented as having learned everything there is to know.
26. Scientology conducts "children's security checks," a 99-question interrogation using an E-meter to determine culpability for perceived misdeeds, including those from past lives or even a billion years ago.
27. Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in reincarnation or past lives; they teach that humans are worthless beings who will live until Armageddon, identifying themselves as a doomsday cult.
28. As children in Jehovah's Witnesses, there was a constant fear of a physical doomsday, causing anxiety even during natural events like storms.
29. Scientology teaches that everyone was once an immortal, god-like spiritual being billions of years ago, and through Scientology, individuals can regain these powers, including telekinesis and control over matter, energy, space, and time.
30. Scientology initially empowers children with the idea of god-like powers but later uses this belief to blame victims of abuse, stating that their spiritual powers inadvertently caused the harm.
31. Narcissism, exemplified by manipulative leaders, is the backbone of cults, which use consistent patterns of behavior to make followers feel inferior and worship the leader.
32. The defining difference between a religion and a cult is the response encountered when members attempt to leave.
33. Leaving Jehovah's Witnesses results in severe, immediate shunning, including removal from family communication and being treated as if dead by former friends and family, a practice reinforced by strict information control.
34. Those who shun believe they are acting out of love and for the spiritual good of the shunned individual.
35. Scientology goes beyond shunning, employing a policy called "Fair Game" against those who speak out, involving a targeted harassment campaign aimed at destroying their lives.
36. The Church of Scientology's Office of Special Affairs is a dedicated division for legal affairs, public relations, and "dirty tricks," actively engaging in "fair gaming" by harassing opponents through tactics like stalking, slandering to neighbors and employers, and contacting family.
37. The "Fair Game" policy explicitly permits tricking, suing, lying to, or destroying opponents, and if legal, would extend to killing, with current tactics including smear campaigns, hate websites, doxing, property damage, and disrupting travel.
38. While both groups psychologically attack ex-members, Scientology further aims to literally destroy their lives using significant financial resources, contrasting with Jehovah's Witnesses who employ severe social and economic punishments like job loss or familial expulsion.
39. Leaving the former religion resulted in the loss of significant family relationships, including not speaking to a mother for 8 years, driven by a desire to prevent child abuse.
40. In Scientology, ex-members are labeled "suppressive persons" or "enemies," portrayed as inherently evil individuals who oppose the improvement of humankind.
41. Scientologist family members believe that maintaining contact with ex-members who are antagonistic towards Scientology will result in the loss of their spiritual gains.
42. Familial and social isolation after leaving is a psychological torture tactic designed to force ex-members to return to the organization, which leaders enjoy.
43. Many members are genuinely well-meaning, traumatized individuals who remain in the belief system because they lack alternatives, having been abused, manipulated, and made codependent as children.
44. Approximately 20 million unofficial Jehovah's Witnesses attend annual conventions, while Scientology has about 25,000 to 30,000 international members and is shrinking.
45. The two major challenges for ex-members are shedding ingrained cult behaviors and the fear of losing their entire community and family.
46. A speaker's anonymous online criticism of L. Ron Hubbard led to a confrontation, a demand to complete a year-long disciplinary process ("A to E steps"), and ultimately, the abrupt end of their engagement and complete social isolation after their fiancée broke up with them due to their non-compliance.
47. The dysfellowshipping process in Jehovah's Witnesses weaponizes an individual's community, severing all ties with childhood friends and immediate family, who are prohibited from responding to communication after an official announcement.
48. A speaker who officially disassociated was mentally prepared for the loss of relationships, which they grieve primarily due to the realization of the profound brainwashing affecting their loved ones, who genuinely believe shunning is a loving act.
49. A speaker felt they lost their parents to the cult at age eight, not when shunned at 38, and now prioritizes genuine, unconditional relationships, including with themselves, hoping their mother might someday "wake up" to pursue her own healing.
50. The speaker differentiates their feelings towards siblings versus parents, holding more resentment for their mother who, despite admitting she didn't believe everything, enforced the religion, and they would only reconcile if the family acknowledged their past actions and left the organization.
51. A speaker successfully reconnected with their brother by apologizing for their past involvement and demonstrating personal growth after leaving the organization.
52. While working for Scientology's Sea Organization, which functions as a paramilitary group, members are forbidden from having children, leading to forced abortions, a loss that a speaker still mourns.
53. Scientology protects abusers by internally handling cases of generational molestation, monetizing the "cure" for perpetrators while preventing reporting to authorities, often returning children to abusive environments.
54. Scientology has a designed system that monetizes abuse by charging victims to discover their supposed role in attracting the abuse and charging perpetrators for absolution, creating financial benefit and control for the organization, while leaving children at perpetual risk.
55. A mother working as a secretary for a high-ranking Scientology executive at a secret international base experienced quid pro quo sexual harassment, which, after being exposed through "security checking," resulted in the executive being demoted and the mother being moved to a lower-paying food service role for years.
56. After her child escaped Scientology, the mother was removed from her lower position and forced into a six-year "thought reconditioning camp" (RPF-like program) between ages 59 and 65, coinciding with her child's disconnection.
57. Upon returning to Scientology, the mother's Social Security and inheritance money were "harvested" to pay for Scientology services, despite her only earning $50 a week.
58. Scientology covers up financial crimes and abuse against children and the elderly to protect its tax-exempt status, which is crucial for its financial survival.
59. Jehovah's Witnesses adhere to a "two-witness rule" for reporting crimes, including child abuse, meaning that if there aren't two direct witnesses, the crime is often dismissed as not having occurred, thereby impeding justice for victims.
60. Jehovah's Witness elders are not mandatory reporters and do not have a procedure to alert police about reported crimes; instead, they document alleged sins in personal files without taking action, ensuring no accountability.
61. Jehovah's Witnesses headquarters maintains a database of tens of thousands of child sexual abuse reports and instructed congregations to destroy records, prioritizing a clean reputation for "Jehovah's name" over protecting children.
62. Learning about Jehovah's Witnesses' shunning practices, their failure to mandate child abuse reporting, and the $40+ million paid annually in confidential settlements for abuse cases, funded by voluntary donations, led to a speaker leaving the organization, which discourages external research and fosters ignorance by using legal persecution as a means to reinforce a "us versus them" cult mindset.
63. Scientology, despite a 1984 UK high court ruling identifying it as a dangerous movement targeting vulnerable individuals, continues to operate similarly, using formalized policies with 70 levels of punishment, including disciplinary action, fines, expulsion as a "suppressive person," and "Fair Game," to prevent members from reporting or suing other Scientologists or the organization.
64. Predators within these organizations are not confined to their groups but are present in the wider community, including through door-to-door ministry, making no child safe, as evidenced by tens of thousands of documented cases in Jehovah's Witnesses' database.
65. Many people join Jehovah's Witnesses with good intentions, believing they are finding truth, structure, and saving their children by controlling them, even if their actions cause harm.
66. Many Scientologists are initially well-intentioned individuals seeking self-help, but the deeper, confidential teachings, only revealed at higher levels, involve elaborate stories of space aliens and an intergalactic warlord named Xenu, which is concealed from new recruits.
67. Both organizations are largely filled with sincere, well-intentioned people who genuinely desire to do good and are taught positive values like honesty and affection, although these positive aspects do not outweigh the overall organizational harm.
68. Many parents join these groups not out of malice but as an addiction-like escape from personal dysfunction, believing they are doing good and saving their children, even if it causes harm.
69. While individual members may have good intentions, the management at the top of these organizations knowingly engage in harmful practices, fostering an "us versus them" mentality and a narcissistic moral degeneracy that leads members to persecute, insult, and constantly judge outsiders as inferior, ultimately creating institutional evil.
70. Cults are led by narcissistic individuals who seek out vulnerable targets, and while rank-and-file members have good intentions, they are taught manipulative, cover-up behaviors, as seen in the speaker's experience of discovering that many high-ranking elders were involved in serious crimes like rape, fraud, and murder cover-ups, and religious organizations collectively use legal loopholes and their financial power to obstruct mandated reporting laws.
71. Suing individual executives and elders, rather than the entire organization, is proposed as a strategy to expose wrongdoing, send perpetrators to jail, and potentially lead to organizational reform or abolishment.
72. Jehovah's Witnesses enforce intense sexual shame, guilt, and control, discouraging education about sex and requiring members, including sexually assaulted women, to confess private details to male elders in intrusive interrogations to assess repentance and culpability, often leading to lasting shame.
73. Many elders conducting these interrogations are themselves abusers or are otherwise unqualified to handle such sensitive conversations.
74. The extensive indoctrination around sexual sin, particularly regarding homosexuality, in organizations like Jehovah's Witnesses leads to deep-seated shame that requires significant therapeutic intervention to deconstruct, as control over natural urges is a primary method of overall control.
75. Indoctrination instilled a pervasive sense of being "wrong" and "bad," disconnecting individuals from their bodies and emotions, making it difficult to realize their normalcy and health after leaving.
76. For former Scientologists, dispelling sexual shame is easier because their founder, L. Ron Hubbard, was a deeply flawed man with a history of multiple marriages, accusations of psychological torture, and bigamy, making it clear the shame doesn't come from a divine source.
77. L. Ron Hubbard's document "Pain and Sex" claims that pain and sex are tools used by "evil alien psychiatrists" to enslave humanity, leading Scientology to view psychiatrists as modern incarnations of evil beings attempting to enslave populations for eons, a delusional fantasy taught to all members.
78. A speaker realized they would never subject their children to the shunning and lack of unconditional love they experienced, refusing to join any religion that would create a barrier between them and their offspring.
79. No ex-Scientologist or ex-Jehovah's Witness has reported not being abused or harmed, indicating systemic abuse at every organizational level; therefore, educating children about coercive control is essential to protect them from cult manipulation.
80. A speaker plans to expose their future children to a wide range of beliefs and experiences, including various religions and social movements, to foster high emotional intelligence and the ability to detect manipulation, ensuring they are not "dumbed down" like members of cults.
81. A speaker chose to publicly leave Scientology, sacrificing family and inheritance, to protect her children from being indoctrinated, motivated by her stepfather's threat of forced fourth-generation involvement and the suicide of her older brother who was a Scientology "poster child."
82. Despite differing beliefs, the manipulative and controlling mechanisms used by both former religious groups are fundamentally identical.