Raw Transcript
Well, good evening and welcome to the broadcast and [music] welcome to well the new year at least for this radio program. That's the first first uh broadcast of the new year for me and um so [music] I'm really happy to be back be back here after a little break and be um sharing this time together [music] uh with you. Um, as I often say, you know, when I was I read through the emails uh in the hour or so before I do I come on air here and um and I always like reading through them all and as those of you who've listened to this program know that I am often encouraging people that if you want me to address an email that the shorter it is, the more likely it is that I can address it on the air. Um, and I often address um any number of emails without actually reading through them. And you know, most most evenings I'll make some opening remarks. And during those opening remarks, often uh many of the themes that I've read through the emails come I'll talk about those without referring specifically to different emails. And then of course other times I'll I'll speak directly to a to an email that I'll read with you. I'll read some emails later on this evening. Um those of you who also are might be new to the for the first time. Uh let me just let you know that um a little bit later in the program, we'll open up the phone lines for you to be able to call in and and um talk with me and I'll talk with you, but don't call in yet because none of the phones will be answered quite yet. So I'll let you know when those when those phone lines open up. Um there is a couple of questions in the emails. uh and I get this with some you know regularity even though it it it becomes a you know uh somewhat frequent reoccurring point of discussion with people uh when I teach when I'm traveling or even on this program I've talked about it um quite a few times but the question of still continues to come up um and so I just every once in a while I do like to to address it and sometimes people you will question or wonder why I don't talk more about sort of I guess you could say the the state of the world or talk more on current issues of the day or whether they're political issues or societal issues or economic or cultural or uh uh uh environmental. you know, there's a there's a long long list of things that one could be concerned about u with the world that we all that we occupy. And um and there's a reason that I don't often talk about those things. I'll bring things up here and there. Um but the teaching work that I do what I really what I really want well the first of all what it's really based on is a deep trust I guess you could say a deep deep faith which actually comes from a kind from a depth of experience that I don't think that people need to be told what to do. I don't think they need to be told what to think. I don't think they I don't think that they need to uh have my view on the world or cultural events or politics or the environment or any number of things that people could probably surmise some of my views if they listen to me long enough I suppose but I don't see it as my as my job as part of my role as a teacher to talk directly to those issues. I think we have endless numbers of people telling other people what they should think about all manner of things. In fact, that's one of the sort of one of the things in the modern world that creates so much static is that there's so many people telling everybody else what they should think and how they could how they should think and you know sharing their opinions and all the rest on all manner of of world events. And it's not that this is this is bad, but there's so much of it that it becomes after almost like static, you know, with it's it's like the the airways gets oversaturated with with ideas as if ideas could be the sole solution to our problems. I have a deep faith in act in in human beings actually. um faith. Not in the sense that I'm certain that we're going to get our act together and save our planet and save each other. I don't actually know. Um I don't have a faith about that one way or the other. We we'll all see how it or our ancestors will see how it all works out. But this teaching work is very much concerned if you want to put it that way or it infolds in its circle of concern or interest the state of all manner of things individuals, groups, politics, environment, um all the various ways that human beings mistreat themselves and each other and the world and all of this is included in what I teach but it's I what I mean by that is I address it from what I see is the fundamental level the fundamental level and our the fundamental level is that is when we get disconnected from our depth a depth that is far beyond our individual predetu our individual preferences, our individual points of view, our individual beliefs. It's when we come to a depth within ourselves that's fundamentally beyond all of that that's rooted and grounded in a shared an actual shared experience and shared perception of unity. That experience and that perception then begins to dictate how we move in the world, what our contribution to the world is going to be. Um, of course I think it is significant what our each of us what our contribution to the world is. I am not it is not at all part of my teaching uh to just have the idea that the goal is to find some sort of personal enlightenment or liberation from which we feel completely free and happy and at peace and then who cares what happens to the rest of our world and our culture and our and our environment and our human family and all the rest that that is not the direction that my teaching is pointed in. I think that's a that's a false spirituality actually. I think that if we authentically and really touch upon the ground of being, the ultimate ground of being, it makes us very connected, very sensitive, very uh open to the concerns of everything and everyone around us. from that experience, from that perception, which is not a perception based in fear or anxiety, you know, because that doesn't help anything. It doesn't solve any problem. There's lots of fearful people about the state of the world and the state of humanity and all the rest that are all very fearful and come up with all sorts of fear-based ideas, but in the end, it means nothing. It doesn't accomplish anything. It doesn't help anybody. And at the end of the day, that's all that's important, isn't it? What is my contribution? What is our contribution? What are we offering? Are we offering fear? What are we offering to the world? What is our contribution? It is not my place to tell anyone what their contribution should be because I don't know what your contribution should be. I don't know what anybody's contribution should be. I have no idea, no belief system, no point of view on what everybody else should be or even could be doing. This teaching is based and it's an outgrowth of awakening real authentic awakening which shows us the connectedness the unity the sameness even of all things and all beings. It also connects us when we touch upon that ground of our being to a very alive, very real sense of eternity. The the absolute okayess of all things, the perfection of each moment, but one isn't grabbing on to the perfection. One isn't grabbing on to the wholeness. When I was grabbing on to the unity and isolating it within the totality of human experience, that is not the aim. Because if we grasp onto any particular perspective, no matter how sublime and elevated, it begins to reveal itself to be in some way limited. So to me the the depth of being, the ground of our being, the ground of existence from that realization, from that state of clarity, from that state of revelation that informs the way we move in the world. What I have seen is that until we know that ground and experience that ground and live in and as that ground, until we do that, then our many of our actions, well, our actions aren't based in that ground, you see. And when our actions are coming from that ground of being, when they're expressions of that ground, then they carry great energy. They create carry great transformational power. great transformational power. Um, and they carry the car they carry the signature of the unity and the knowledge of unity and the wholeness into our actions into our involvements in life. So I am very encouraging of people to be very much engaged in their lives, very much contributing to life, contributing to the welfare of all beings. I think this is important. I am just not inclined to tell people what I think they should be doing because I don't know what they should be doing. That would be arrogant for me to assume that I know what you should be doing. But I know that if you're connected to your heart, if you're connected to eternity within you, that that connection when and if it's authentic and real and deep, that connection will inform and even inspire your actions, your contribution to life. So that's the level that I'm working on. That's that's what these teachings are focused on. But as I said earlier, not as an end in and of itself because then it just becomes sort of self-reerential, you know, enlightenment for me, liberation for me so that I feel good. But if liberation is real, if the awakening is deep and profound, it becomes very clear that it's not about me. It's not simply about my well-being, my freedom, my enlightenment, my liberation. That in fact is some of the very notions that actually fall away. that it's not simply about me. It's not even primarily about me. You could say the deeper our realization, the more we go from me thinking to us thinking, us can be infinitely inclusive. And so I deeply encourage everyone to express the depth of their being in the moment to moment interactions of their life in their relations in their involvement with their community and their society and their ecology. The spirituality that I teach is not a world denying spirituality. I it it it becomes clear to me with some regularity that because you know nowadays there's u so much access to so many different teachings that it is very easy in the background of people's minds to start that these teachings start to flow together and teachings that might have some similarity in concepts or certain points to view start to mold together because I have people often times attributing things to my teaching that very much aren't part of my teaching. But I know that they are very much part of other teachings that have some similarity with mine. And I'm sure in the background of one's consciousness, it's very easy our mind just sort of mold things that sound similar together. And I understand that. But this teaching isn't isn't in any way life denying. It's not in any way disconnected from our human existence, from the world, from politics and commerce and environment and all the rest. If you really get what this teaching is pointing at, it wakens up a kind of love in you. And to me, that's the that's the signature of an authentically realized being. An authentically realized being is very aware of the world around them. It's very aware of what's going on. They're not disconnected, but neither are they fearful. They operate from the standpoint of love. What they do, they do for the sake, from the motivation, from the fullness of love. Their participation is a participation based in love. Not in fear, not in anxiety, not in struggling with you know oppo opposition but it's based in love. Sometimes love has to say no. Of course it says no. Sometimes love is not just some sort of amorphous spiritual fantasy. It's a very gritty real or it has a very gritty real engaged component to it. But it seems to me if our world needs anything, it needs this sort of real earthy authentic love and realization to be brought into the world more. And each of you has your own unique expression in this life. Some people have big expressions. Vast majority of people have much smaller expressions. But don't ever underestimate whatever your expression, whatever your part to play is. Has immense impact. Has much more influence than I think most people would really be cognizant of, really be aware of. So each of our life counts more than we imagine. It go all goes back to the very impetus I had in spirituality when I really began my own spiritual quest at 19 years old or so. It came out of these two passions. One was the passion for enlightenment. I just, as I've said many times, I read the word enlightenment in a book and a bomb went off like inside of me. It's what it felt like. And I just had to know what that meant. What was this thing called enlightenment? I don't even know why I was interested in it. I [snorts] wasn't trying to necessarily cure suffering or anything. I just had to know. It was one of those oddities of life. You something occurs to you and you just it grabs you and you have to know. And so that's profound motivation. The other motivation that was equally as strong was the motivation of looking around the world that I saw um seeing the great amount of confusion uh suffering, turmoil, uh violence, you know, hate, ignorance and greed as the Buddhists would say. and just seeing that that did I did not want that to be my contribution that was a very powerful motivating factor what is my contribution to this life is going to be here I was a 19year-old kid way back then 30some years ago and I thought what is my contribution to life going to be I wanted to be something other than what I often see around me something more whole something more real something that seems more true, something more saying. So these two motivations were very much they began my spiritual quest and of course they completely inform uh my spiritual vision to this very day. And so I just wanted to mention that because you know I don't get it a lot but from time to time people wonder you know why I don't talk about world events you know more often or comment on things. Uh you know uh I know it's really popular you know that everybody has Twitter and and you know as soon as some world event happens you know everybody that's anybody's supposed to get on and tell everybody else what they think about it. But to tell you the truth I don't think you need to know what I think about world events. I think you need to know what you think and more important what's in the depths of your heart. That's what I think people need. They don't need to know what somebody else thinks necessarily. I'm not saying, you know, it's in any way wrong to share what your thoughts on things, but you get the idea. I think um I'm more concerned about the human heart and I have great faith when the human heart and human vision of unity is awoken that the action that flows from that is dynamic and creative and doesn't need to be told what to do. It inherently moves in a way that's I suppose we could say good. Good beyond good and bad. You know, beyond the dualities, but nonetheless, it moves in a way that's good. It moves in a way that reflects that realization. And that's what I'm interested in. And it seems to me that this is what humanity really It's called for is called to realize. This is what life is asking us to realize. Uh in many ways our survival and our ancestors survival depends on it. We can't keep going in a completely asleep state anymore. But as I said, to get all afraid about that and upset about it doesn't help your ancestors at all. Because usually when people get afraid, they get more conflicted. And when they get conflicted, they get angry and they act angry. They act divisive. Of course, when somebody's acting divisively, they usually think their division is for the best possible reasons, right? You know, I may be angry, but I'm I'm I'm rightful in my anger. Somebody else is angry. Well, they're not right. I'm right. You see, we we continue the same sort of competitiveness often conflict. Each side certain that they're correct. I have there's nothing in me that wants to participate in that because I see it for what it is. It's just a play of delusion. But there is something else. There is something else. There is the unified vision. There is the fullness of the the human heart. There is the infinite expressions of love and there are many expressions of love in this world and there are many people doing wonderful loving things in this world. We don't hear about it. Most of it doesn't ever make the news but it's happening nonetheless if we care to really open our eyes. It seems however that if life is asking anything, if I may even speak in such terms, it's just asking us to live our own live life authentically. I mean, imagine a world where everybody really took responsibility for expressing the highest thing within themselves. I know it's sort of a utopian dream. Very well aware of that. I'm not waiting for it to happen. But I do think there is something innate in our innate nature. Innate meaning something that's innately us. innately part of our being which is loving which is unified which doesn't cling to a particular point of view. And this by the way is one of the dangers of spirituality by the way because various spiritual teachings, spiritual disciplines, they can introduce you to or shift your perspective let's say into different perspectives. Do you know unified view perspective where everything is eternally perfectly okay? that there's a there's a view where everything seems absolutely perfect even the in all of its or in some of its horror there's a view where the world seems to be an illusion you know like a like almost like a movie you know almost something that you could just that could just flutter away at any moment there's a perception of that there's also a spiritual perception where life itself every element of life is God is is The divine is the eternal self that every what we would call mundane material part of existence is divinity itself. And I could go on to name many many many other perspectives. I often call them facets on the jewel of enlightenment. If you imagined a a diamond with many cut facets that you're looking peering into reality or peering out from reality from of a given facet and that jewel of reality has various facets. The jewel itself is the reality. The reality actually transcends all of its facets. It it transcends everything I just mentioned ultimately unity and love and connectedness and perfection and those are the views from the facets of reality. But that absolute ground is is not adhering to any of those perspectives. You could say it partakes in them, but it is not defined by them. In the same way that a common diamond on a ring, a diamond is not defined by a particular facet cut on that stone. The stone is much more than the facets on the stone. So as I said in this teaching it's not necessarily although the teaching can elicit in you various perceptions at various depths of your realization and understanding. The point is not ultimately to have one particular point of view. The po the point is to be completely grounded in the truth of your being in the ultimate absolute ground of being. Then these various facets views from reality create sort of a a hole. You see, just a whole and and only then do you you no longer have to be trying to think, you know, which facet is true, you know, is the world an illusion? Is that's what's true? You know, cuz some realized being said it, you know, 100 years ago or a thousand years ago, is it is it real? Is it not real? Is it God? Is it an illusion? Is it this? You know, all these facets. And by the way, not every point of view is a facet of reality. Most perspectives are have very little to do with reality or perspectives of the jewel of delusion. But um even those that are really come from the depth of being, when we're grounded in the fullness of that ground and the depth of that ground, we are not stuck to any of those points of view. We It's almost as if you see them all at once. You experience all of them simultaneously. It may sound quite complicated, but it's actually the opposite. It's actually extraordinarily simple. Extraordinarily simple. And to come back to the subject that I started with, the more we experience that or some some version of it, some depth of it, the more it seems to me that it does inspire us and it does make it obvious and relevant to us that the way that we participate in life is important that it counts and that we naturally not because it's a spiritual idea or an ideal but naturally what it something arises from the illumined heart. what arises from the illumined heart naturally. It doesn't have to be put there. It's not a standard. It's not a commandment. It's not uh a precept. It naturally arises from the illumined heart. Now whether you feel like your heart's illumined or not, I think almost anybody that's listening can have some basic intuition of what arises from an illumined heart. Even just a light heart. When your heart feels light and more open and available, what what arises? How do you act? How do you interact with the world? How do you move? How do you participate? You see, you know, you felt it. You don't need somebody to tell you. You don't we don't need that a new standard to be set. All we need is the encouragement to return or recognize the depth of our being and then begin to live from it. And to tell you the living from it is much more challenging than realizing it. People often think well I just have some big awakening experience and that's pretty much it. I will automatically you know behave like a saint like a sage or a saint you know. Well, doesn't usually work quite that way to the capacity to manifest and express and embody the depth of your own realization. There's really no end to it. It's endless. It's infinite. And as many of you know, just because you have a profound realization does not necessarily mean that when you get challenged or you go into the world and world of relationship etc. and you get challenged or you feel threatened that you automatically operate from the depth of the deepest thing you know. Often times people disappointedly find that sometimes they revert back to something much less evolved. But that's its own journey. Not that that journey needs to become have an ideal around it of saintthood or anything like that, you know, cuz all that just gets in the way. All that just creates images for people to get upset about not fulfilling. But nonetheless, we each have a seemingly infinite capacity to express and embody and be what we are in our depth, in our fullness. And that's what this teaching is pointing towards and encouraging each person As I say, this is not a teaching that is a rallying point for this is what we need to do. This is what you should think. This is how you should participate in life. This is the movement we're all going to rally around and, you know, bring into the world. That is not simply isn't me. I don't I don't hold myself in that kind of esteem to think that I would know, as I've said many times, what other people should be doing. But what I do know is the truth and the reality and the potential that lies in each of us. That I do know. And I also know the vulnerability of the human experience, the frailty of it, the imperfection of it. Less we get too idealistic about all this. It seems to me when we're connected in this way that our heart naturally reaches out, we stop treating everything around us as other, including those we don't agree with. Soon as we treat them as other, we are just creating otherness. As soon as you create otherness around somebody you have a disagreement about or a different political point of view or affiliation or a different view about the ecology or whatever, as soon as you create otherness in your consciousness, as soon as you make someone other, as soon as you you begin to degrade them, you begin They dehumanize them. And well, this is our basic problem, isn't it? Life doesn't care why you're degrading someone or why you're dehumanizing them or why you're oppo or why you are in in this oppositional sort of relationship with them. All it registers is your opposition. Like I've said, you sometimes we have to say no to people or to actions. But we can say no to the action without saying no to the person, without dismissing their humanity. And I see a lot of dismissing of each other's humanity going on in the world. on all sides of arguments and debates and perceptions. As I said, everybody thinks they're on the right side of the argument. [snorts] That's the problem. I'm right. You're wrong. That's the problem. People think yes but you see I am right because again what's your contribution is that going to get you the world you want? Is that going to get you the discussion with the next person that you want? Is that going to create the intimate connection that you want? It's an old ancient spiritual teaching, but the longer I do this, the more I see the importance of a of a real authentic kind of humility. That deep humility is sort of a counter to the arrogance of positionality. So I don't think I need to go on about that any longer. I hope you get the point. I hope you know that uh I have a great love for this world and the human beings and the animals and the ecology and everything and everyone in it. A great love for it, a great feeling for it. This is one of my primary ways of participating in it. This is my primary contribution, you might say. I'm not just sitting at home on my couch going, "Well, how jolly it is. Look at what I've realized for myself and I feel quite happy and free, so why bother myself with any with anything else?" No, that's that that would be that would not be being true to what I've realized. This is part of my contribution. It's not the only way to contribute. There's an infinite variety of ways to contri. I encourage each of you to contribute and to realize that you are contributing at each moment of your life. You are participating at each moment whether you want to or not. You are you are participating in the whole of life. You are contributing to the whole of life. You are a intimate participant willingly or unwillingly in life. Your consciousness is affecting life around you. There is no way out of that. There is no way of escaping it. We are all participating. But it seems when our heart the more our heart is awakened the more powerful our participation becomes. So that's what I really am concerned about. That is what my inspiration is for is to awaken that in the hearts and minds of of anybody who cares to you know be a part of it. Um having and having great trust that from an awakened heart and an awakened mind um uh creative and creative expression and beautiful expression uh and participation in life comes out of that and I am constantly um surprised and impressed with the various ways that I hear different people contributing being participants in the world community. you know, I hear different things or I talk to different people and I'll think, "Wow, that is I would have never thought about that. That's extraordinary. Look at what that person's doing. Look at their look at what they're contributing." You know, I would have never imagined that. I wouldn't have thought of that. That's absolutely fantastic. That's what I mean. That's what I'm interested in is awakening the c the the the the creative capacity within individuals, not being trying to dictate what what it might be. So, uh let's see. Let's start with that. I think that's probably a good good opening to the program. Um let me go ahead and open the the lines. You can go up and and uh give me a call. Um let me just remind you before you pick up a phone however that this program you know and this teaching and especially this program is really dedicated to really the exploration of truth of the deepest reality. That's really what it is. That's really what it is. And that's that's what I really want this program to be about. That's what I really want the phone calls to be about. And um that's what this whole teaching is is focused on. So I just want to make that clear because that's kind of the parameters I guess you'd say that I like to set for this for this uh for this program for our time together. Do you know um there are many reasons for people to gather gather and many legitimate ones but uh this is a shared love of truth of eternal truth. That's that is what inspires me to be here and to share this time with you. And I think that for the vast vast majority of you that is what inspires you to turn on your whatever you're watching from your computer, your iPhone, your iPad, uh you know, whatever gift technology has given us to participate in this moment together. Um which is really a a profound uh you know it's a profound blessing. Um, my goodness, when I started my spiritual search at 19, you know, there was almost no spiritual center at all around. Um, they were few and far between. Um, and you know, you had to go to those obscure sort of spiritual bookstores that were hard to find and usually quite small and >> [snorts] >> uh, you know, it was like a treasure hunt just to get certain find certain books or spiritual teachings and uh, it's all very different now. You know, it's at the sort of the it's at their fingertips on the internet now. Um, and beautifully we can participate like this together. My god, if I could have done this with somebody, you know, in another part of the United States or some other part of the world that I was interested in being, I would have been over the moon with excitement, you know. So, I think it's still comes off as quite magical to me that uh we can actually do this and and utilize technology for a a good purpose. Do you know a good purpose? I like to think it's a good purpose to really try to reach out and communicate to really communicate to really um touch what's deep, what's important, what's true, and to share in that together. That's a It's almost a magical thing. Um, while it takes a few minutes for people to call um talk to the screener, get put on my computer screen over here to my right that you can't see probably. Um, so while we're doing that, I'll read through maybe a few emails. Um, this was a state of the world email, so I've kind of covered that. At least I had a few of those. Um, this one I found fascinating. Um, and uh, so I wanted to read it. It's it's it's a different kind of, you know, awakening story, I guess you you'd say, but which is what I appreciated about it. Um, I'll just read parts of this email. Awakening came for me 10 years ago when I h when I tried to commit suicide in hospital facing what I thought was imminent death. I suddenly found myself absolutely terrified at the prospect of dying. Can you imagine try to kill yourself and then there you are in the hospital and you go oops my goodness I'm terrified at the prospect of dying. Uh as it was I did not succeed in killing my body. I'm happy to hear that. And over the next few days, I started to experience a breakdown. Myself began to come apart and disintegrate. In its place, this awake consciousness awoke to itself. This is where my story differs from everything I've heard about awakening and where my question lies. Instead of being a blissful or peaceful experience, this process was utterly terrifying, petrifying. It felt like myself had died and suddenly God was watching through my eyes and I was aware that it had had always been so. Reality was utterly changed, transfigured. It was like I had just been born into a strange new world, awake for the first time. Conventionally, this could have could be thought of as a psychic psychotic breakdown. And given the intensity and terror of the experience, I do not reject this theory. However, it is a massively incomplete answer. To quote RD Lang, "The mystic and the schizophrenic find themselves in the same ocean, but while the mystic swims, the schizophrenic drowns." I've always loved that quote actually. I thought I've always thought there was a fair amount of truth in it. I seem to be aware of and living what the mystic describes, but I'm not experiencing in the same positive way. Initially I experience incredible terror which after 10 years of acclimatization has diminished to states of unease, confusion, bewilderment at existence and at this everpresent and at this everpresent bright formless consciousness. I do not experience love, bliss, or well-being. Life is very uncomfortable for me. I am suffering. I realize I am not free of ego despite this bright awareness being utterly present. In fact, it seems my ego terrified at its own disintegration has managed to reestablish and reconfigure itself in accord with this new world as a very frightened, contracted and fragmented self. Um it is I will skip ahead to the last little bit here. So my question is why? Why am I experiencing this so so negatively instead of as something positive and liberating? It feels like being stuck in some kind of limbo between enlightened enlightenment and ego absorption. Anything you can say on the matter would be so much appreciated. If I'm stuck halfway, can you say something to indicate the way forward? Thank you. Well, um I appreciated this email. Number one, I really appreciated its honesty. So, thank you for that. And its courage to to write it and to express it so clearly. Um, and this is not completely uncommon. This this does happen. I I see this happening. The idea is every kind of awakening is going to be blissful and lovely and and you know um completely without fear. Um, and that may be true if the ego if the ego completely and absolutely lets go because it's the thing that's in fear. But it of but sometimes it doesn't quite work out that way. Especially like in this case where part of what was in this mix was a suicide attempt which obviously meant there was some sort of great angst before that event which led up to that. So a ego when an ego sense is already in great turmoil to the point of being fractured maybe even already fractured uh an opening of consciousness um can do this strange dual thing. It can throw you into a a state of as you said all of a sudden the experience is as if God's looking through your eyes that you uh uh realize yourself in a certain sense to be consciousness itself and yet simultaneously you can have this fragmented sort of ego on the periphery in terror uh because ego views eternity the experience of eternity as very very very threatening and frightening and uh as the psychiatrist RD Lang his famous quote the mystic and the schizophrenic find themselves in the same ocean but whilst the mystic swims a schizophrenic drowns um I wouldn't take that statement with you know absolute uh uh as an absolute concrete fact but as sort of a metaphor part of awakening can really and often does throw you very deeply into the deeper realms of consciousness and part of getting thrown into the deeper realms of consciousness is an awakening to a lot of your unconsciousness. It's almost for some people they you can get thrown into sort of almost like a dream world you know where your unconscious is becomes very very active you know and the schizophrenic gets completely lost there that becomes their entirety of their reality. Um whereas you know the mystic may visit that on their passage through but they don't get lost or stuck in it or take it to be real. Ultimately, the mystic kind of goes right on through it and past it, but it doesn't always work out quite that cleanly. Um, often there is uh various amounts of of, you know, remnants of ego that are clinging or afraid or, you know, whatever it may be. So, I know I have lots of calls getting put up here, so I don't want to take a tremendous amount of time. But the first thing I want to say is this, you know, some version of this, this is a little bit more on the, I guess you'd say, a little bit more on the extreme side, but not entirely extreme, but some version of this is not entirely uncommon. You know, lots of people have profound awakenings and, you know, there's often an element of great relief and and happiness and well-being, but there's often simultaneously for a lot of people, there's some element still of fear, sometimes even a kind of terror um and all sorts of other uh issues that can still be ego issues because like I said, there is transcending ego and there is the ego falling away. When the ego is transcended, the ego is lessened in its impact, in its strength. But what's left of it is not particularly thrilled or doesn't even completely understand what's happened. If a com ego falls away, well then all well and good. You know, there's really nothing to be sit there to be afraid. One of the most helpful things I could probably be able to say is some of the words that were used in this email I thought were really instructive. You know, kind of a shattering of ego or a shattering of self. So, and fear makes the sense of the shattering even more acute. So I would recommend to have a real tenderness with whatever your feeling or experience of that frightened ego terror ego that's still in terror is to have a not to be able to get rid of it or figure it all out but to look at it with a sense of compassion with a kind of understanding as if almost as if you are to say of course it's afraid because that's the part of the psyche that still sees itself as separate. It's not separate. Nothing's separate. Of course, everything it's even even the fractured psyche is already included within the totality of one's consciousness. So, it's already included. But to see it with a real sense of compassion, with understanding. Do you know a lot of spiritual teachings would say, "Well, it's just an illusion. You know, just see it's an illusion. Cast it off and be done with it." And you know, that's all very well and good if you can do that. My experience is most people in that situation, it doesn't work out quite that easy to bring a real sense of compassion and understanding to it. knowing that it's not nothing wrong has happened. No, a mistake hasn't been made. This this scene through the veils happened in an extremely intense and fracture already fractured state of consciousness. And so because it happened in that that was the sort of the pre-existing condition the the ground from which it occurred in then it stands to figure that some amount of that fractured ego um is going to still be there. Do you know? Uh, in other words, coherent egos fall away much easier, easier than fractured egos. It's just a truth. The more fractured the ego, the harder time it has letting go of itself cuz it's in so much in it's in so much confusion and anxiety and fear. You see, the more coherent it is, the less it's in fear, anxiety, and it can fall away much easier. But most people's egos are to some extent somewhat fractured. Do you know it's that exists on a huge scale, on a huge spectrum, but I would bring some real compassion to it, understanding of it. I've gone through this a bit slowly because I think sometimes just having a deep understanding of what's happening can itself help the ego the mind kind of realize that actually every things are okay that some terrible turn wasn't made. It's just this is the way things sometimes go when a spiritual opening happens in the midst of a sort of a very traumatic pre-existing, you know, state of mind or event. Sometimes this happens. It doesn't need to stay this way. It probably won't stay this way, especially if you start to bring some love and compassion to the parts of the fractured ego. You know, don't don't try to figure it out too much. If it has something it wants to tell you, if it if there's something you need to see, be very open to it. But see it much more with a really look at it and see it and feel it, which is most important, with a kind of compassion, with a kind of love. Approach it very quietly, very lovingly, you know. Don't rush in there to try to fix it and get rid of it. It doesn't that just fractures it more. And just spend some time in in silence. That that can really help. Silence can things can come things come together when you're just being still. If you're trying to figure everything out and and and and just getting lost in all the fractured thinking when you're trying to be still, well, that doesn't help much. But if you can just spend some time being still, do you know? Uh stillness has a very unifying effect on the psyche and and the body as well. So that might really help too. Let me know how it's going. By the way, um write me back in a little bit and let me know how things are going for you. I'm always interested, you know, when I speak, I like to know what the effects are down the line. Okay. I People have been holding for a very long time on the phone. So, I'm going to go to the person who's been holding the longest. Um, let's see. So, for some reason, nobody's coming up when I click. There we go. Kevin from Boston. Hi. Welcome. >> Hi, Auda. How are you? >> I'm doing very well, my friend. Thank you for waiting. I appreciate it. >> Oh, no problem. Thank you so much for speaking with me. >> Yeah. >> Um, so I actually met you at a Omega retreat in September. >> Yeah. >> I had some things moving through me then and uh you came and found me as I was walking through the retreat center and uh >> Yes. >> We w up having a conversation in the library. >> Yes, I remember you, my friend. Yes. >> Yeah. Oh, it's great to hear you again. Um, you know, a lot's been happening since then. a lot of things have been opening up and uh continuing [clears throat] to move forward. >> Okay. >> And uh I don't know how much I should say, but I had like a very strange experience there. Um some things opened up. >> I wound up having >> a conversation with a person who was there that was transmitting through thought. Yeah. >> I was speaking with this person, like communicating with him through my thoughts. >> Yeah. And he was warning me, he was telling me all these like beautiful things about awakening and congratulations and you made it and all this stuff. And then he started going into these things about like good and evil and >> yeah, >> warning me about some things. And um a lot of the things so far that I didn't understand at the time have actually come true. >> Mhm. >> And uh some things that sort of been coming up recently um which I I just I don't know. I just needed some insight about >> okay >> um for a period of maybe like two weeks I was I couldn't sleep whenever I found myself going into sleep I can I can see things moving in the room >> I can see images of things sometimes when I close my eyes I can sense that there's something in the room >> I was sensing [clears throat] like a mother with a childh >> um but I've and I've I sense like just like a very dark energy that almost sucks like all the coal like just all the like heat out of my body with this cold and it's just like it's intense fear, >> right? >> And and on the other hand, sometimes I'll I'll um I'll see different colors when I'm when I'm when I'm sitting still like these brilliant colors and they all do very specific things. It's it's really interesting the way that they sort of move into my consciousness, what they do there. >> But there's a sense of like love and just beauty and just this like wow, this is so amazing. >> Yeah. Um, but these two these two sort of come back are going back and forth and back and forth and it was sort of >> it was it got to the point where I stopped meditating because when I was meditating I was getting the sense that there's like something standing next to me and it was like scaring the crap out of me. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> yeah. It's the same theme, isn't it? That you started with the sort of light and dark theme. >> What? I'm sorry. Say again. sort of the light and dark theme is running through, >> you know, the whole story line. >> Yeah, that's true. >> Right. >> So, so now like I'm starting to I think my my mind is getting a little bit crippled with this idea of good versus evil and is there's this really this like >> this negative energy and there's just this positive energy and is >> this bigger picture of things that I'm not understanding. >> Yeah. Um, but at the same So I'm sort of aware like I like some of this I might be making up. >> Oh, you can be assured of that. >> Yeah, >> absolutely. >> You can absolutely be assured of it. >> So I guess like I don't even know what my point is or what I'm what I'm trying to ask, but um you know >> I think I know what you're trying to ask. [snorts and laughter] Sometimes it scares the crap out of me. But I've also learned to just like start sending love to those things. Those things that I feel like are trying to block me from proceeding forward. >> Good. If you're going to do have any relationship with him, to send them love is the best thing. Absolutely. >> Like I started praying for these things. >> Yeah. >> I started I started praying a lot actually. I don't know if like >> I don't know. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, do >> you have any do you have any insights or comments on any of this? >> Yeah. Yeah. Let me let me I mean this is going to be a little bit different context that I'm going to explain this in, but I think it's of some use. >> Great. >> Um the the the ancient text, you've probably heard of it before, the Tibetan book of the dead. >> Mhm. >> Now, if we just if I just summed up the whole Tibetan, the book of the dead, it's basically right an instruction for people that are of how to negotiate after, you know, the the phase shortly after you die. Um, but if and I don't even suggest you read through the the Tibetan book of the dead. Probably wouldn't even be a good idea right now, but I'm going to use it to illustrate something, which is the instruction. If you boil it all down, it's actually something very simple. It goes through all these different states that consciousness can visit in its transition after death. All these states of consciousness, curiously enough, are states of consciousness that people can visit and can go through during life, especially when their consciousness starts to open. So, it's not just a death book. It's actually a almost like a your consciousness opening manual. The the basic instruction though, if you boiled it all down, was very simple. You have descriptions of heavenly states, terrifying states, um lustful state. I mean everything you can imagine. All these different states that they call Bardos, right? A Bardo state that you can experience and they seem extraordinarily real. The instruction is always basically simple, which is don't get pushed, don't be afraid by that, don't push that away. And don't grasp on at this wonderful heavenly state. Just just put your mind to your attention on the clear light of awareness. Basically, don't pay this any of these bardos, the heavenly or the hellish any mind. Just return to the clear light of awareness. Always, always, always. And of course the instruction is because then your transition goes through without you getting stuck because wherever you put your attention if you start to put your attention on one of these states that state starts to become more and more and more real to you >> right and it gets more and more and more energized >> and uh and so you know and that's a very I mean as a teacher I can tell you it's it's a very difficult it's one thing when people want to not experience fear, they go, "Well, I I'm very happy not to put my attention there." Uh, but they but when it's something very blissful and heavenly, it's quite more much more difficult to get me to suggest they may not want to grasp onto that one. Right? Not that you should be pushing that that away either, but it is think of this as you're you are going to the very ground of your own consciousness, right? the very ground and on the journey to the ground of consciousness you there is almost an infinite variety of states of consciousness. You could say states of existence you can you can imagine they have objective reality e it doesn't really matter. Um but when you're going when your consciousness opens it's basically now on a journey to its root and to its core. And with some people's makeup to where they're just sort of inherently hooked up, some people will have much more vivid experiences of all this than others. Some will have very little vivid experience. Some people will have very very vivid experience of it. You know, you're hooked up to have much more vivid experiences. For better or worse, that's that's just the way you're hooked up. >> Yeah. Nothing's been easy for me along this journey. The 10 years of this, I went through the suicide part for a while. I went through everything. >> Yeah. Yeah. So that's good. That's important for you to know. >> Yeah. >> You know, just like, okay, that's my hookup. Things t tend to come in extremes, >> you know, and okay, you know, and how have I dealt with extreme these extremes and you know, which ways have been useful and which ways have not been useful. So that would be my that would be that would be my advice is to more just keep to some some very very simple principle and and just see these as like you're going you're on a journey through consciousness and these are it's like going through a journey from California to New York City. You go through lots of different states and towns and cities and they all have their own particular way of being and perspective and experience. But uh and you can stop and pull over and get lost in them for any of them you choose for a long time. Or you can just kind of figure, you know what, I'm going to New York City. I'm just driving through. >> Okay, >> I'm just driving through. And you'll see as soon as you resist it, resist anything you experience because your experiences are vivid. If you ex resist it, that resistance will pull you into it. And if you get fascinated by some, your fascination will pull you towards it. >> Yeah, that's true. >> It's a very in one sense it can seem quite complicated, but the underlying dynamic is very very simple. It's the same principle with everything else that you sort of do along this process. >> It is >> the same principle. >> Yeah, it's the same thing. I just sort of got sucked into this one a little bit. >> Yeah. Well, you you have very vivid experiences and it's so therefore it's easier to get pulled into the to certain vivid experiences. >> Yeah. >> Do you know? >> Yeah. >> As you know, you can you can experience something that seems 100% absolutely completely totally real. And then five minutes later, you're sitting around going, "Now, how did I think that was so real?" >> Yeah. And just doubt the doubt comes in and the Yeah. I've had like messages come to me. I've seen like divine like figures and things like that. And it's >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's a trip. It's a real mind trip. >> Yeah. It is. It can be >> when you're a when you're a very powerful what I would call a very powerful experiencer, >> you can have all that. And you know, yeah, you could, you know, if you wanted, if you went to some shaman or something, they might tell you how to work with all that stuff and become experts in the Bardo states, but not only am I not an expert in the Bardo states, I don't even have much interest in them because ultimately they are not the the the ultimate ground of being and they are diversions and some of them are damn dangerous diversions on top of it. It's >> really interesting. I actually did I did go to a shaman group up here. >> Yeah. >> And that like a lot of stuff I I never went to one before and um I had some really really um >> um vivid um visualizations with like >> I mean Jesus Christ came into my into my picture. I was hugging the Virgin Mary and some like some of these other like really like >> amazing things. >> Yeah, it is. >> Yeah, >> consciousness is amazing. M >> it's extraordinary. >> It could just be a diversion. >> Like there's it can there's a lower part than this. >> There's a deeper part than that. >> There's a deeper part. Yeah. I'm not I'm not my point isn't to >> denigrate anything that anybody else is into. I'm just saying there is there is something more more fundamental. you're going to you know what this is really the journey is really about if we can even call it a journey >> is to the absolute ground the root >> of consciousness the root of >> being and like I said it's there can be >> okay >> lots of interesting and terrifying >> places to meet along the way >> that's really good to know >> yeah yeah if you know that then you know then of Of course, you're still always making your own decisions, right? It's your journey and it's your life. But um [laughter] but I think in the long run experience will teach you that um if you follow and and also um not just experience but if you really follow the the deepest impulse in you >> you know what like what this is really about in the very deepest place I think that you might connect in with with what I'm talk telling you about about the the feel the ultimate ground of consciousness. You know what's the real truth here? Instead of the infinite varieties and states and plains of consciousness that I can visit, what's the real ground, the real root of all of them? >> Do you know? And it seems to me that in the depth of our being, in a very quiet place, that that's what we're called to. >> Seems to me. >> So, >> thank you so much. I don't want to hold you up for other people. >> You're welcome, my friend. I'm glad you called. I It was great to hear back from you and hear your voice again. >> Yeah, it's great to it's great to talk with you again. You're always so helpful. >> Thank you. >> Thank you so much for everything that you do for me and for everybody else. I wish you so much love and just >> Oh, that's very sweet. >> For you and just Yeah, >> you're very welcome, my friend. >> Thank you so much. >> Byebye. >> Byebye. Okay, let's go to um Elizabeth in San Francisco. Hi. >> Hi, Aya. Uh my question is about keeping the awakening process simple. >> Yeah. Oh, I like that. Lovely. >> [laughter] >> Do you want to say anything more or is that >> Well, it's kind of like, you know, I love you and I love listening to you speak and talk about all the nuances and complexities and >> the way you feel all the different students that you you have and all the different experiences and it's it's sort of like I can't be helped in a way. >> Mhm. >> Um it really I mean really in the deepest sense. >> Mhm. I know what you're saying. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Mhm. I I and absolute respect in bowing to all of it, but it's like it's just >> No, this is I mean it was it's it's we're talking in a totally different context as the last caller of course, but there's a there's a theme and I'm I'm that I think is very important in spirituality and I think it's very very important that one's approach to spirituality be very very simple >> and I don't mean simplistic as in unintelligent But very very the more onepointed, the more simple, the more powerful. >> And so you're right, you know, since people experience an in huge variety of things when they're uh endeavoring in their own awakening process and in our own lives. Of course, I get, you know, uh, questions that are that encompass a huge variety of of issues, but and, you know, I'll I'll talk on those and I'll give sometimes give certain teachings aimed at those, but underlying it's a very very very simple thing as far as I'm concerned. I mean to me I think spirituality is really ult and I know this is very abstract for a lot of people um but it's really about what's ultimately in the end what's true what's real what's true about me what's true about life what's true about God what's true about you whatever it is just what what is real and you know when we take that not as an intellectual philosophical, you know, um, journey necessarily >> or even something to grasp on to like that's going to be true necessarily from now. >> That's right. That's right. because it because that's why I say I know the word doesn't work for quite a few people and that's why I use lots of different words but um truth isn't like some thing you come upon is it it's not like one thing you put in your pocket and go now I found the truth and that's it and good for me >> right >> do you know what I mean that's not >> it's living and breathing >> that's right there's something there's a living breathing state of openness clarity um uh a sense of inner and outer unification uh which gives rise to a natural sort of boundless sense of of love and heartfulness. Do you know? >> Um, not that we always go around just feeling, you know, gushing with love necessarily, but um but >> like this is a heart that isn't it's not about emotion, >> right? >> About a reality of the way consciousness works, >> right? And to me because the the the interesting thing about even the the approaching the whole notion of truth on whatever level we approach it which is the interesting thing isn't about coming up with new definitions of truth. That's just a game. Mhm. >> The interesting thing is when we really look at what's really true right now, I think if at the moment at the instant we get really simple with that question and really really direct we ask the question what's really true and all of a sudden everything becomes extraordinarily quiet because something in us intuitively knows that all the noise isn't true. Right. Something just knows. >> Yeah. >> That's why if we ask the question from a deep place, it's not like we sit around trying to find it. It's it it silences all the nonsense and the and it's well my goodness. All that can just disappear as soon as I'm not thinking about it. Wow. Well, okay. That's not true. There went my entire worldview. >> But here I am. Right. Here you are. Here we are. >> Yeah. >> Here we are. What's true about this moment where here we are talking together? >> What's really real >> about about this moment? What's really alive about this moment? And one thing I can share too about um this question is I feel in the process that sometimes what happens is that there's a knowing of there's a real clarity around the simplicity. >> Yeah. And I can feel the movement of the ego sense where it's it it's it's as though it's a lack, >> you know, like there's um a lack of understanding is sort of equates with a lack of self or a lack of like um how to say um it's there's something that resists the simplicity. >> Yeah. for a sense of like wanting to be somebody who knows, >> right? >> And >> and because you know the whole whole image of becoming >> a child like in the in the kingdom of heaven, which isn't really a place, but it's thing. It's sort of this >> like such a childlike sort of simplicity where you know there's there's knowing and there's um there's deep knowing and deep intelligence and yet there's also this like you say so often innocence that's >> yeah just here that's it just here. Yeah, it's that's where we run into like the descriptions become almost nonsense, right? >> Like a knowing beyond knowing or something. It's it's kind of goes back to where I started the program like from that place. That's why I don't sit here and talk about what people should do or think about the state of the world because I don't know. I don't know what they should do and I don't know what they should think. But what I do know is the possibility that we all share and the amazing and beautiful creativity that arises from that place of not knowing. And so you're right, there is there is there there definitely can be that slight or sometimes overt resistance to that kind of that's where emptiness really is, right? Right. It's in kind emptiness in the true sense is really kind of a state of of innocence of a very clear and intelligent in innocence. And the the more the the the mind or the ego isn't particularly comfortable with that >> because there's nobody to be with it. >> Right. >> Yeah. And there's no there's no position to try to dominate from even if only slightly. >> There's no strategy. >> There's no strategy. >> Yeah. >> No. >> No. So, um this is to me this is the simplicity of it. >> Yeah. >> You know, all the rest is just what we go through on the way to simplicity. Basically everything in spirituality you could boil it down to my resistance to simplicity [laughter] >> really and all the ra ways and reasons and you know that get established through people's lives and experiences and everything why we are resist and are afraid of and all that kind of stuff. uh this profoundly simple, beautiful, innocent clarity, >> do you know? >> Yeah. >> And what can we say about it? >> Yeah. >> In the end, we really can't, can we? >> No. No. >> And yet, there's kind of like a paradox. I talked about how words don't help, and your words have helped. So, >> well, that's, you know, I hope they do. I I I do think of this as somewhat of a devious verging on disreputable rep uh uh thing to do [laughter] to talk about something that that you know that really can't and and almost feels like at times it shouldn't be talked about but occasionally for some magical reason that I can never control or anticipate for some reason now and again um it just sort of helps something in someone relax. >> Yeah. >> And that's great. >> That's that's that's helpful. >> And that's the only reason to do it. >> Yeah. >> Beyond that, you know, uh I remember when I don't do it that much anymore since things have gotten very big because I, you know, kind of move around. I've been forced to interact with things a little bit differently. But when I was much closer to, you know, listening to groups of people or I'd be in the parking lots after an event or something and um you know, and sometimes from a distance I'd hear people start to talk about, you know, well, well, Auda's da da da da da da da da da. And sometimes I just sort of inside myself, I'd shake my head and I'd go, "Oh my god, we've already got the gospel according to Auda beginning, >> you know, and I've only been teaching a few years and I thought, oh my goodness, what [laughter] what am I doing? what am I participating in? >> And of course it's a you know it's I understand it. I you know I of course I totally get that. But also the point for all of us, you and me and anybody else, is to come to that back to that primordial state of of being, of innocence, of intelligence, of love, of that we can't grasp, that we can't define, that we can't know. And it can we can know it by being it but we can't know it by thinking about it and and that's what it's all about. >> Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. >> Yeah. I'm very glad you called. I hope that made things a little more clear than less. >> It's it's very helpful in some sort of wordless way. It really resonates in my being in a in a really beautiful way. >> And just like I say, you just find the thing. That's why I often ask people, you know, what's this all about for you? >> Yeah. >> And you just just you that's your simple thing. >> Yeah. >> And any teaching, it's only relevant to the extent that it serves that. >> When it starts to take you away from that, then you then you have to re-re what's this really about for me? That's your standard. That's your That's the simp that's the simplicity. That's that will, you know, always always be with you. That will be what what that'll be like your north pole all the time. And to the extent that you kind of lose that or you start to listen to something else too much or you get sort of lost in the teaching mind or something else and if it starts to take you away then the teaching is not serving that then it's time to just go oh wait a minute where is that simple thing >> for me you know that somebody else doesn't define for you not you to somebody even meaning me but what is it for me because that's always clear you know I mean not that it'll always feel clear but it always has a simplicity to it has a directness to it >> it's always here >> it's all that's it it's always there right you don't have to go back to a book and go now let me see what is this all about for me [laughter] what you'll find is what it's about for somebody else in a book you know [laughter] >> you won't find out what it's about for you. It's almost like in to some extent it's almost like we're born with it, >> you know. So that's what I want to encourage. >> Yeah. >> And that's what I mean. That's what I have great faith in. >> Yeah. You know, the words that come forward right now is just ongoing discovery. >> Yeah. Like >> that's right. >> It's always freshly here. >> Yes. >> That's it. That's an ongoing discovery. I love that. Yeah, >> I think it's a wonderful place to conclude. >> Well, thank you so much, Aya. >> You're very welcome. >> Much love to you. >> Thank you. Much love to you. >> Thank you. >> Byebye. Okay. I love that ongoing uh you know the ongoing realization ongoing. There was a phrase from a old Buddhist scripture that we chanted in monasteries and temples all around the world. It's the end of it. It's it's says always being always becoming always being Buddha. Always becoming Buddha. Always being always becoming. And these are not philosophical statements. These are statements of trying to express the depth of an awakened perspective. You know, always being that. Always have been that eternally. Always, always, always, including now. Being that one vital reality here now appearing as this always being that and always becoming that which you always constantly timelessly are always revealing itself always showing itself always renewing its vision renewing it moment to moment. Nothing to hold on to. No realization to grasp to say this is it. This is what I hold on to the rest of my life. Always allowing that which is always here to continually inform you, inform itself, reveal itself. this wonderful beautiful paradox always being always becoming then the becoming isn't goal oriented because the goal is always at the beginning it's always being you always are that and that being by its nature infinite has an infinite capacity to reveal itself but always from From the very beginning it is completely and absolutely uh whole and therefore nothing to hold on to. That's the innocence. The discovery call is being called for each moment. the clarity each moment, new, fresh, not dragging the old into the new. And the trick, the key is to stay in a state of innocence. Because that clarity comes out of the now awareness of innocence. It naturally arises in the emptiness of that innocence like a gift or a grace. There it is. But no owning it, claiming it, reifying it, concretizing it, just the appreciation of it and the living of it. So I love the last call as I love the first call. always to be left with nothing. But what a pregnant vital nothing it is. What a creative nothing. This is the whole point. Okay. So, may we all embody that and live from that and express that and and make our contribution to life from that from that place from that and encourage that within our own being and within each other and have great respect for its unfolding. however it may come about in whatever form it may arise. Um nice to be here with you again. Um meeting [clears throat] this way as it is each time we do. Um thank you for being with me. It's been a nice nice time to to share together and um and [music] may we all just sort of let it all go and return to that place of innocence within us [music] and and to that simple simple thing what this is [music] about what spirituality is about for you. That one simple [music] focus. Namaste. [music] [music] >> [music]