Raw Transcript: Legendary Hip Hop Artist Reveals UFO Obsession (Ft. Flying Lotus)

There was one time I jumped in to a a 
conversation. It was about the Skinny Bob stuff. Oh yeah. There were people 
just talking about like, oh, you know, this video is amazing. And I'm like, are y'all 
still talking about this video? It's clearly like a [ __ ] dude. Like, I'm here with one 
of my production heroes, Flying Lotus. Uh, I feel like I can't even categorize you. I have 
to call you creative because you are an amazing director. You make films. Uh you're I think 
one of the best hip-hop producers ever. Well, you come from maybe the most kind of interesting 
musical family I could think of. Alice Col Train is your what is your great aunt. Is that right? 
Yeah. Yeah. She was like Yoda, you know. She was like a Yoda type person. When I play it, it makes 
me recall Egypt, ancient Egypt. It makes me seem to remember that that that I have a past or a 
history there somewhere. She just had she was tapped in for sure to to the source. Maybe this 
is something that we were, you know, connected to a bit earlier in in our development as human 
beings, you know. Um maybe we were closer to God, closer to the source, closer to the stars. You saw 
a [ __ ] like frozen alien or something yourself, right? Didn't you see like that? I might have. I 
might have. I saw a thing with three fingers and three toes. I think Spielberg knew some [ __ ] 
And then he looked around the room and he said, "And there are a number of people in this room who 
know that everything on that screen is absolutely true." People would call in and they're like, 
"We're doing time travel stuff at Area 51." what we're thinking of as as aliens. They're 
they're extradimensional beings that an earlier [Music] I'm here with one of my production heroes, Flying 
Lotus. Uh, I feel like I can't even categorize you. I have to call you a creative because you 
are an amazing director. You make films. Uh, you're, I think, one of the best hip-hop producers 
ever. And, um, uh, yeah, man, just an all-around awesome guy. And and I didn't even know you 
were interested in UFOs until we started DMing, I think, on Twitter or something. And it was 
that was so surreal to me because I was like, I've been listening to this guy for 15 plus years 
and he's into the stuff I'm putting out. What's going on? It was it was pretty surreal for me for 
you to respond the way you did too because I was just like, you know, I felt like I was reaching 
out to a few people just to try to get some info and some insight on, you know, what people knew 
and and you responded and you're like, whoa. I like whoa. Cuz I've been following you too, you 
know. So, it was it was a trip and you know, I'm really excited to do this. Same, man. Well, 
you were asking amazing questions. You were like, why can't we just get Lou Alzando and Kirk Patrick 
in a room together? Yeah, why not? I'm with you. It's like, why is that so hard? Why are they 
who's who's not making it happen? I feel like one of them would would love to do it and the 
other doesn't. Yeah, it's a lot of like cheap shots from afar. It's like, why can't we get Grush 
and Elon Musk in a room together? Why can't Yeah, why not? Who's Who's afraid? Who's afraid? Well, 
in my experience, it's usually the anti-UFO side that it's like they're hiding something. They're 
guarding something. Yeah. and they probably put up that whole front like, "Oh, I have no time to 
talk to these people who are they're clearly liars and all this stuff." So, I don't know. It's kind 
of kind of bizarre for me to like on the outside where you're just like you're seeing all this all 
this testimony and you're hearing all these things and then everyone's just kind of like talking 
in their own little echo chambers and speaking about it and it's just it'd be nice to just have 
a round table with all these people, you know, have what's this? What's that cat? Um, what's 
who's the skeptic? The big skeptic. Mick West. MC West. Yeah, put him in there. You know, like Yeah. 
Put everybody up there. Everybody. Let's just work it out together. Do you have any favorite 
UFO or alien conspiracies? Oh, yeah. I love um I love There's a few. I love obviously Bob Lazar 
story is is super amazing. Yeah. And that touches on a lot of the stuff on your shirt for sure. Bob 
Lazar story is is one of the it's like one of the gateway drugs. It it is the gateway drug. Yeah. Um 
there's another I forget the cast's name, but the guy who worked at Rathon and Eric Hecker. Yes, 
that guy. The dude that said we have a neutrino emitter and detector on the South Pole. Yes. 
But it also was the reason for the Christ Church earthquake earthquake in New Zealand. Crazy. And 
uh I love that. I mean, I don't know if it's true, but I [ __ ] love that. It's wild. It's such a 
such a wild idea. Um and you know, I don't know how much of it is true. I don't know what's real, 
what's not. I feel like he must have been there. I think there's photos that he shared. He was 
right there. Yeah, he was there. Um but you know, he said a lot of stuff was like overheard 
like water cooler talk. So, you know, who knows what that even means. But, but yeah, Steven 
Greer, fascinating dude. You know, he hates you, bro. I loved watching that episode of him talking 
to you, man. I never seen him be so [ __ ] mean. He showed up to that, dude. He was like, he was 
out the gate like not [ __ ] with you. He called me a dillant like four times. He said a lot, man. 
He said a lot. I I'll if you let me finish, I'll tell you. You know, he was like, "Look, I've been 
in this for 30 years." He was like, "You you don't really know anything." Okay, I'm sorry. But it's 
funny though, man. I I I was actually um on my way here, I was thinking about how just thinking about 
the community in general because I, you know, ever since I've started liking tweets, all I get is UFO 
stuff um in my feed and there's like, you know, the usual suspects who are posting stuff. John 
Greenwald and um was like UFO Joe. UFO Joe. UAP UAP. He's amazing. Um, but I always find the just 
the the auxiliary community so interesting. Yeah. Um, and I don't really engage with it. I'm kind 
of a lurker. That's good. That's a better position to be in, trust me. But there was one time there 
was one time I I jumped in to a a conversation. It was about It was one of those uh UFO accounts 
that was talking about the Skinny Bob stuff. Oh yeah. And like the the Skinny Bob video and I 
was like there were people just talking about like oh you know this video is amazing and I'm like are 
y'all still talking about this video? It's clearly CGI is like a [ __ ] dude. Like I said that and 
people were pissed. They were pissed. They were like who's this blue check I had never heard 
before? he got a whole bunch of followers on. Like he sound he's sending disinformation out 
there. Like I was like, "Oh [ __ ] son." Like people want to believe this [ __ ] so bad. Believe 
it so badly. And I feel bad now because we're in a time where like we're making all these crazy AI 
videos and all this stuff. And it's just like, man, these people, they're I feel bad. No, it's a 
religion for most people that are into it. Yeah. because they're like, if this stuff is real, it 
has to incorporate into some larger metaphysical worldview, right? And then it's like that's all 
that matter. It's the only thing cuz then reality is not what it seems. And then you see them 
get so argumentative and angry and dig their heels and if you hit one of the things that 
they're like sure about and it's it's one of the things that's hard about the quote unquote 
communities. You have to I feel bad for you. I feel bad for you. I feel like anytime like after 
the Joe Rogan thing, I think I saw people just feel like Jesse Michaels is like a paid somebody 
[ __ ] working for the government or some [ __ ] or like you know you're like the billionaires are 
in your pocket and all that stuff and like Yeah, I think 20% of Reddit thinks I'm like a CIA agent 
or something. It's ridiculous. It's crazy. Well, it's kind of shitty because not only are there 
like dangerous situations or like seemingly dangerous situations. I feel like I'm in visav 
those people, right? But I'm also And now I'm [ __ ] Now, now you're [ __ ] bro. [ __ ] going 
to come for me. You're going to get tracked. You don't [ __ ] believe the skinny Bob video. Oh, you 
dick. I'm blocking you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm saying that you get it on both sides when you get 
deep enough. You get like the conspiracy theorists think that you're part of the establishment and 
then the establishment is probably keeping tabs on you and you're like [ __ ] hey, this is 
crazy. So thanks. Thanks. Oh man, this is my [ __ ] is tapped now. It wasn't tapped before. 
It's tapped now. Just be in here with you. Oh, that's funny. Yeah. Well, I don't know. Where do 
you think it goes? Do you think it um what just the whole UFO conversation? Do you think this ends 
with something get getting unveiled to Area 51, a saucer in a hanger? Do you think the president 
makes I feel like that moment right there, the president makes announcement. I always think about 
that and I always think about how many people be like, "Well, Trump said it. I don't believe it." 
Right. Right. Or then there's the people that say, "Ah, Trump said, well, I definitely believe." 
Yeah. But I know that the weight of that is somewhat diminished in this term. You know what 
I mean? Yeah. Yeah. It's something about it just I mean if he comes out and says that [ __ ] 
everyone's going to be like why' he say that? Totally. What else? What else? What? Well, we 
know already but where's the video? They show you the video. It's like well it's AI. Yeah. 
Oh well I mean honestly you got to be like hang they got to be here with us. Y you know and 
and like it's going to take so much. I think at this point you can have the material. I got this 
piece of metal. Scan it. Yeah, you saw you saw a [ __ ] like frozen alien or something yourself, 
right? You see like I might have I might have I saw a thing with three fingers and three toes. 
They call it the touch the tridactyl beings in Peru from dated from the Nazca period where 
there's cave art all over there. One of the the um biioinformatics genetics people found a 
mutation that matches a human mutation that involves digit differences on the finger. Crazy 
stuff that one of them has a fetus that might be tidactyl inside of it. Yeah. Eggs, right? One has 
eggs. Yeah. One has eggs. So it's like But yeah, isn't Haimeme Mousan part of that? Yeah. Situation 
and he's a known fraud. So like it's all [ __ ] isn't it? And you I don't know. I'm just saying. 
That's And I met I spent a lot of time with Haime. I love Haime. I think he's awesome. I went to the 
the unveiling of Oh, you did? That's right. I went Yeah. It was like Yeah. It was like down the 
street from my house basically. So I was like, "Shit, I'm going there. I'm going to check that 
out." What was your take when like on the spot with the with the beings? Um well, they didn't 
have them there. There was a presentation like saying that they are, you know, they were showing 
the photos and the the X-rays and all that stuff. Y um so it was a little hard to really have an 
opinion when you don't have you're not seeing it with, you know. Sure. But I just take it all 
with a grain of salt. I find it fascinating. It was I had a great time. Yeah. Met a couple cool 
people there and left. That's the move, man. You You have the right orientation towards this whole 
subject, which is like it's fun and like we'll see what happens. Yeah, we'll see what happens. Um 
I will say though, there's times where I'm like, "No, man. This is real. H, you know, there's been 
there's been those moments, but then there's been moments where, you know, it's just like, well, 
of course it's us. Of course it's our technology. Why would they want to say why would they want to 
admit that?" um you know, we're making all these crazy anti-gravity propulsion. Why would they want 
to share that with anyone? I think the way to back them into a corner is you go as deep as you can on 
the anti-gravity stuff and then you go as deep as you can on the UFO stuff and then it's like, okay, 
unless you have all these fighter pilots lying, then one of these is right, you know? Yeah. So 
I would think hey man I who's I'm not saying the pilots are wrong but maybe they're seeing Loheed 
Martin stuff. Yeah. And I don't know the whole um what Jay Barber Jay Barber Jake Barber stuff with 
the Skywasher stuff that's really fascinating. Super trippy. Really interesting. Then when Jake 
Barber came out on that, what was it with Ross Khart when it came out, man? That video, he was 
like talking the whole time. Me and my buddy was like, "All right, let's take a shot if he blinks." 
Chad didn't blink at all. He was sober like a [ __ ] That's funny. But like, but man, it's 
it's it's really interesting, fascinating stuff. And I I don't mean to poke fun or whatever, but 
I I think it's I mean, if you follow this stuff, I really do hope that you have a sense of humor 
about it because you need to you got to it's it's just like, you know, you get so worked up. People 
get so worked up over these things. I can tell just by the tweets and seeing stuff. Um but yeah, 
people need to touch grass and be families, you know. Sometimes people get so heated. I'm like, 
just relax. It's all good. Yeah, it's all good. It's all good. You know, if it if it is true, your 
life is not going to change. You're still gonna have to go to work tomorrow. That's right. Yeah. 
Yeah. Yeah. Whatever it is, at least right now, is like weekly entangled with our reality. Like we 
are, you got to still be a good person. You got to pay your bills. You got to do all these things 
that like, yeah, aliens don't really affect it that much. You know how we're always diving 
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so much to Qualia for sponsoring this episode. And like I'm sorry if if Ross Kohhard really knows 
where there's a giant UFO. He knows where it is. I feel like there's ways of leaking that information 
that doesn't, you know, get anyone hurt. I uh just interviewed him and of course I asked him that. Is 
there anything Joe Rogan just talked about this? Everybody talks about this amazing bombshell 
thing that you reported on. You know what I'm going to say? Yeah. This UFO possibly found in 
uh uh uh that that that they needed to build a bunker around that was like, you know, a mile 
plus long. Anything you can say about it? I do not resile from saying what I've said previously, 
which is that there is a buried or at least built upon UFO that was too big to move. And that's it. 
He did not give me the answer. Something tells me, you know, he might be bending the truth a little 
bit. You know, I don't know. He He implied and I can say this because he said this to me and it's 
coming out. He was like it it's an extremely sensitive site that you you'd endanger personnel 
on the ground like maybe soldiers or something. So that makes me think like current war zone. 
It's a very sensitive place. Mhm. That should be enough of a guide for you. Mhm. And to reveal 
the full extent of what I know would compromise the lives of young men and women who are doing 
good things for America completely separate from the UAP program. And they're probably oblivious 
to what's sitting downstairs. There's ways to leak information. He knows that. Yeah. You know, 
it doesn't have to trace back. Come to him, right? Yeah. Ross. Yeah. Come on, man. Like, come on, 
man. If you can really change the world. Yeah, you should. Yeah. Yeah. Come on, Ross. Oh, that's it. 
You know, it's like I understand his spot though, too, because say he hasn't fully corroborated 
that that's true. like he somebody shouldn't be saying then he shouldn't be saying [ __ ] right? 
He shouldn't be going cuz he's very confident when he says that stuff. Yeah, it's true. So, it's 
like, you know, I remember when those the Chinese drones were flying over and he was always like, 
"My sources say this and my sources say that and he's so confident about sources and then his 
sources keep changing the story still." Well, he just came out with something about the drones 
recently. His sources did. Yeah, his sources did. He said that something about the drones being 
American military exercises like Yeah. Yeah. So, I don't know. The sources told him it was 
the Chinese too before at first, you know, it was like there's some I mean, if anyone out 
there is really about to change the world with this stuff. I feel like the powers that be might 
forgive you, might not go to jail forever, might not get executed. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think 
it's worth I I think it's worth it if you really got the goods, right? Yeah. Like you'd be you'd be 
the people's champion. I would do it if I wouldn't be torpedoing uh like if it was like a person that 
was like you will get me killed or something like I can't do that. But if it was like you'd be like 
Julian Assange, dude. Like you don't want to you don't want to but Julian Assange is man. It's 
not a fun life. But yeah, this the difference though. Yeah. Right. is like that information is 
totally different than True. It's not like you're just going headtohead with Mike Pompeo on the CIA. 
It's totally different. It's like this is just pro in a movie. What's that? You could play 
Luigi in a movie. Oh, I'm down. I heard Super Super Mario's brothers were It was a 
very high grossing uh film. So, you know, you got to pay a pretty penny if you want me as 
a you know, Rock Green. I'm talking about the [ __ ] guy who killed the Oh, man. God damn, 
man. Why are you going to throw that at me? But you know what? He He's the people he was 
the people's chant. He was a people's champ for a while. I don't quite know why. I mean, I kind 
of get it because United Healthcare sucks, you know? It's like also [ __ ] that guy. Not that he 
deserved what whatever happened, but I Yeah, it's a weird one. I don't think that killing people 
is the way to the way forward with anything. Um, but you know, in terms of making a difference and 
stuff, if you got the goods Mhm. like that. Yeah. Like UFO goods like that, like world changing. 
Come on, man. It's It's interesting. I think you met my buddy Chris Ramsey. We were hanging out in 
Austin. Amazing magician. Has an awesome channel, Area 52. Yeah. He asked me on the podcast. He 
was like, "Is it the logical conclusion that you will be shown a UFO?" I hadn't even thought 
of that. That maybe personally? Yeah. Like that'd be cool. Like I wonder if like Art Bell 
was shown, you know, Art Bell, Coast to Coast, like was he shown a UFO? like he had these things 
art arts parts these little bits and pieces of UFO stuff and I wonder if he was ever given access 
to anything cuz he was in Nevada area and like I don't know he just had so many crazy crazy 
whistleblowers back then it's interesting people think the whistleblower thing is a new phenomena 
like then people would call in and they're like we're doing time travel stuff at Area 51 they 
know I'm I'm running from them I just quit or whatever like people call in saying this [ __ ] it 
crazy. I I've kind of been running AC across the country. Um Oh man, I don't know where to start. 
They're uh they're they're going to um they'll triangulate on this position really really soon. 
So, you can't spend a lot of time on the phone, so give us something quick. Okay. Um um Okay. what 
what we're thinking of as as aliens are. They're uh they're they're extradimensional beings that 
an earlier precursor of the um space program made contact with. Uh they they are not what they 
claim to be. uh they have infiltrated a lot of uh uh a lot of aspects of of of the military 
establishment particularly the Area 51 uh the the disasters that are coming they the military 
I'm sorry the the government knows about them and there's a lot of safe areas in this world that 
they could begin moving the population to now are but they're not doing they're not doing anything. 
They are not they want the major population centers wiped out so that the the few that are 
left will be more easily controllable. Discharge. [Music] Well, this was certainly interesting. We 
are now on a backup system, everybody. A backup system. And uh that one caller that I had on 
the air, I guess we were about in the middle of his transmission, his telephone call, which 
was one of the strangest ones I've ever had, and the entire transmitting system by satellite 
went down here. And we were notified we were off the air. and it would appear to be from this end 
and some sort of uh massive transmit failure. So, we are now using a backup system to be on the air 
and not that I would normally believe this kind of thing, mind you, but I can't help but wonder 
if somebody somebody zapped us in some way. Yeah, man. I mean, look, if they got the goods, someone 
needs to say something or else you're just going to get a bunch of the same same stuff that we've 
been seeing. I don't It's going to take a lot to to move the needle, I think, at this point. You 
know, everyone's like waiting for that movie with the Age of Disclosure come out or whatever. Like, 
that's going to make a difference. Like, it's just going to be another same people talking the same 
thing. Ain't showing nothing different, you know? So, We'll see what happens. Yeah. I'm curious, 
man. Well, watch it, though. I'm still watch it, though. Oh, me too. It's a great movie. Do you 
Will you help with the whole thing by making a movie about one of these stories? Well, yeah. I 
would I I would like to try my hand at it. I get a little discouraged because I know old Spielberg's 
coming out with his disclosure. Yeah. He's going to do his thing. I don't know what what angle his 
is going to be. Uh, it's a love story with Emily Blunt. Of course, it's a love story. They're all 
love stories. They're all love. Stephen Spielberg. Yeah. But what's the other thing? But do you like 
Spielberg? I I I would guess that maybe you're not the biggest Spielberg fan. It's funny you say that 
cuz I feel like you don't like conventional [ __ ] It's funny you say that. I love Spielberg. Really? 
I love conventional movie. I love it. I love it. I love it. When you can do when you can do the whole 
hero's journey thing well and it works. Yeah. It's It's amazing. And I'll be honest with you, a big 
part of my love for Spielberg is John Williams, though. Oh, amazing. I mean, the music's amazing. 
So, like, you want to go back to like Well, Jurassic Park is actually like a like top 
movies. Oh, yeah. You know, um 10 years old seeing that movie for the first time. I want to be 
a paleontologist after I saw that. You know, I was like change like going to change the trajectory 
of my life kind of movie. But I think there was something about his movies with John Williams 
that that synergy, that connection just really um it brought in the sense of wonderment. Oh 
yeah. In in the film and it just made like I didn't realize until like last year. I went 
through a Spielberg thing last year. I was I watched all of the movies. all of them because I 
was really it was more so a John Williams thing I was going through. Um so I had to watch all the 
Spielberg stuff but you know Close Encounters. I had actually never seen that one before. Oh wow. 
And it was like perfect timing you know all the UFO stuff and um I was just blown away and I saw 
I'm embarrassed to say this but I only saw ET for the first time this year. I love ET. That movie 
destroyed me. And I was like I was watching that movie like as a grown man, but I was also like a 
12-year-old boy watching that movie and like the last half hour I just couldn't stop crying. It was 
just like just endless. Just couldn't stop. It was that movie just destroyed me. I could think about 
that right now and probably start crying. It's It's so good. And when he's biking and you have ET 
with the hood on and these and they starts flying off the cliff or whatever and the John Williams 
thing comes in like oh my god. I think Spielberg knew some [ __ ] about UFOs. I think he has some 
inside sources. Yeah, because you watched Close Encounters of the Third Kind. You have stuff in 
there. You have the crates that say TRW and Skunk Works in the late 80s when nobody really knew that 
much about those two frontier R&D. Something was up. He was definitely he was definitely clued in. 
And there was like there was some weird stuff too like the orbs. He had some like like orbs that 
trailed after the big UFO thing. And I didn't even know that. There were some like weird little 
they were like here we go just right. It was like little little stuff like it was like really the 
sunburn that he gets when the UFO passes over the mountain or whatever which that's really 
interesting. Dude, I didn't even pick up on it. Oh yeah. It's like it's like electromagnetic 
radiation damage, which if you like, you know, Kit Green and Gary Nolan, you know, CIA spooky 
stuff. They're looking at biological effects of people who've witnessed or encountered UFOs. It's 
the same stuff now. And then ET, you have the kid lock on with ET and they have the same bio-ythm 
and heart, you know, readings or whatever. And that's like Jake Barber where it's like he's 
locking on to the the craft. And then the final one, this is my favorite one. You seen Back to 
the Future? No. I live under a rock. Yeah. So, he executive produced that. Yeah. So, we've 
talked about this guy Thomas Towns and Brown. Yeah. Your boy. I love Thomas. Can't get through 
an interview without mentioning this anti-gravity amazing anti-gravity inventor. But in general 
relativity, time and gravity are related. So, the whole his whole life he's obsessed with time 
travel. And if you watch Back to the Future, it's EMTT E M T Brown. Thomas Towns and Brown flies on 
his flux capacitor which is capacitor experiment. It was Brown uh it took place in Pasadena which is 
where Brown lived. That might be coincidental. I don't know man. I don't know. Wow. I don't know. 
And then it was it was the year that he died. It was 1985 and then it goes back to 1957 which is 
when he proved his experiment and it was powered by Mr. Fusion. His experiments were powered by He 
wanted them to be powered by nuclear reactions. I want to watch it again. Yeah, want to watch 
the game. I think that movie might even cuz if if some of this stuff is time travel, that movie 
is fascinating because it points to us mistaking the UFO thing for aliens, extraterrestrials, when 
actually it's time travel because the kid, I don't know if you remember this, but the Delorean comes 
back in time and um it hits it goes into the shed and the kid has a magazine, like a UFO magazine, 
and he's he's looking at the thing and he goes, "It has no seams. It has no rivets. He goes, 
"It must be a flying saucer." And then and then uh when Marty goes back, he comes out like he's an 
alien, too, right? That's right. That's right. It looks like it is. So, they mistake it. And then 
when Marty comes back, his father goes, he's trying to get his mom and uh dad back together 
so that he can exist in the future timeline. And his dad goes, and he's like, "Dad, like, you 
know, he doesn't call him dad, but he goes, you know, she really likes you. Like, come on, get 
together." He goes, "I wouldn't listen to you." Unless you were an alien showing up in my bedroom 
from another galaxy and then he shows up. So, it's almost like showing how we might mistake. 
And then Stephen Spielberg in an interview says, "What do you think is more likely?" Uh, you 
know, distant galaxy, Zeta Reticuli, you know, Andromeda, you know, whatever. Or did he say Zeta 
Reticuli? He said one of those dude. I was like, damn. S go there. Then he definitely clued in. 
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if he did. I might be putting that as or or he said and he says 
is that or is it us thousands of years in the future and they're keeping track and trying to 
like adjust timelines? What if they're not from an advanced civilization 300 million lighty years 
from here? But what if it's us 500,000 years into the future? He said it with Co Bear recently and 
he apparently said it to the Deadpool creator. So I don't know. He might know some [ __ ] It was in 
the White House screening room. Yeah. and Reagan got up to thank me for bringing the film to show 
him you to show the president, the first lady and all of their guests. And um and he just stood up 
and he looked around the room almost like he was doing a headcount and he said, "I want to thank 
you for bringing ET to the White House. We really enjoyed your movie." And then he looked around 
the room and he said, "And there are a number of people in this room who know that everything 
on that screen is absolutely true." And he said it without smiling. Um um but he but but but he 
he said that and everybody laughed. By the way, the whole room laughed because he presented it 
like a joke, but he wasn't smiling as he said it. I think it's uh it's perfect that he's doing this 
movie and you can get him on your podcast. Oh, let's go. How do we do that? Reach out. Start now. 
Start reaching out now. Well, he's a hardcore UFO. He he blur, you know, James Fox, of course. Yeah. 
So he like wrote a little complimentary thing like a review for James Fox's first movie out of 
the blue which I haven't seen that one actually. It's from 20 maybe 14 or something like it's from 
a while ago. So it's like just shows how hardcore into it man. That's wild. I think it was funny 
though. Spielberg was like I I heard him say something like um he he he gave a lot of props 
to Denny Villanu for Arrival. He was like, "Yeah, this the best UFO movie since Close Encounters." 
Like damn, bro. Like you you really on your [ __ ] like that. You really feeling yourself. That's 
great. Since my movie. The best one since I did something. Arrival is amazing. Arrival is amazing. 
It's incredible. Arrival is amazing. Do you ever read the book associ? I haven't either. So I just 
want have nothing to say about it. Oh be cool if I had read it. Um yeah but yeah Spielberg he's he's 
switched on man. And uh James Foxh how do you feel about that moment of contact that I thought that 
was really interesting. I think that's his best movie. Well I I think the phenomenon James Fox 
is amazing. I love him. I think he's got the best energy. He's like the type of guy I I would love 
for him to be the guy to film the first UFO or find it because he's been he was uh valeting cars 
and painting fences while he was making his first movies. He's so passionate and he just in it for 
all the right reasons. He's so collaborative. He just loves everybody. So he's the man. Um the 
phenomenon I feel like is the best like entry point if you don't know anything. I always show 
that to people who are like what about what's going on with this? I was like, "Yeah, watch 
that one." Because it's like it breaks it down in in the best way. It's like best overview. 
Best gateway. Yeah, exactly. And then Moment of Contact, I think, is one of the best docs on 
this ever. And it's I love that it's so out of left field. It's not some official US government 
thing. It's like these people in Virginia aren't lying about this stuff. Yeah, man. It's really, 
really fascinating. I just FaceTimed him. He's made moment of contact, too. Oh, really? What 
else are you going to say about it? There's a lot of new crazy stuff. Y Okay. Y Well, I'm curious. 
I'm curious. Do you think that more like It was such a revelation to me to see that you were into 
this. I was like, "This is the coolest collision of worlds. Do you think that more people in just 
general culture continue?" Cuz I think it's on Twitter. It's like you and Father John Misty are 
like to me like the cultural icons who are like peeping into UFO Twitter and like liking stuff 
here and there. I don't know if you know that, but I didn't know that. That's cool. Oh, it's 
really random and funny. Yeah. And he'll he he wrote like something like uh when I when I heard 
Diana Pulka say that Chris Bledsoe is the new Paul Benowitz, I realized I needed to get a life or 
something. That was his like recent tweet. That's perfect. That's perfect. It's like, bro, like you 
were deep in it, you know, at that point. That's perfect. Also, dude, from what? Blink182. Oh, 
Tom Delong. I mean, he's Yeah, dude. What? See, that's your autism, bro. That's your autism. You 
got you got everybody's name. Like, you're so good with names. I watch you do interviews all the 
time and you know everybody. The name is like, "Oh, yeah." Like, I don't know how you do that. 
Like somebody bring up some obscure book that someone wrote and you know the author's name and 
everybody who's in it and get that [ __ ] dude. Like I forget everybody's name. I don't know 
y'all's name back here filming. Names already. Got Sam and Mauricio. Sam and Mauricio. Are you 
lying? No, I'm not lying. I got that right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. But I find that to be like that's 
actually super powerful. That's my first of all, it's a totally useless skill. No, it isn't. Chat 
G. No, it isn't. You don't need memory. It's a parlor trick on a podcast. No, no, no. It's 
always impressive to me. Well, I appreciate that. That means a lot. That It's funny. It means 
a lot to Sam and Mauricio, too, that you remember their names, too. Yeah. Well, hey, what can I 
say? I mean, uh I think it's I think it's my only skill. After the Rogan thing, we hung out 
at the mothership at his comedy thing and and my girlfriend was there and she was talking to 
him for a bit and he was like to it was the best compliment. He was like, "Jesse's memory is next 
level." And to me, his memory is next level. Well, I mean, cuz it's like he knows all sorts of crazy 
facts about all the like I'm in a narrow domain. I probably have a decent memory on some of the other 
stuff, but like he's got diverse interests. Yeah, he's got diverse interests. He's actually one of 
the people who got me to try DMT for the first time. No way. Yeah. Yeah. Really? Back in the 
MySpace days. Whoa. He was he was talking about it. And I think this is even before he it was 
like a doing the podcast like that. But yeah, he was Yeah, he was early on DMT. He was, you know, 
got me on Rick Straman's book and all that stuff. And uh I brought some DMT for you actually. Just 
kidding. Uh I think this would be the most absurd environment. Don't smoke DMT here. Don't Don't do 
it here. Don't do it here. I would break. But you should try it. Maybe I will talked about that 
last time. Honestly, I don't I've done Iawaska. Technically, I've done it, but not the not the 
fast acting. Yeah, maybe. Maybe check it out if it comes your way. Okay. Yeah, maybe check it out. 
You've told me some stories. Hey, you know, it's um it's fascinating stuff. I feel like my brain 
don't think of the stuff that that showed me. So, I find it to be really really interesting. 
Yeah, that's fascinating. It's like you were in another objective reality. Like where does 
that if that's not in your mind? Yeah. Cuz you know where is that? I always think about you know 
people saying when they trip they talk about like oh I was I was in Jimmyi Hendricks's guitar when 
I was listening to his music and all that stuff. Like Jimmyi Hendris was nowhere to be found in 
this reality. It was like really just stuff that I never my brain doesn't go in this direction. But 
it's funny though cuz I don't really recommend it to people anymore except people like yourself for 
I feel like my worldview is so trippy though. I worry I worry that it would I know you're saying 
that like you you're afraid that like you're not going to come back or something afterwards 
because I'm already so like my my world view is very different I think than the average person 
cuz I'm in all the weird [ __ ] all the time. So I I feel as sensitive as I ever have around 
like, you know, just keeping this thing on, you know, straight. No, I feel that. But in the 
right sentence setting, if it were, you know, to come across my path serendipitously, I would 
do it. Who would throw DMT with it? Maybe you, man. I mean, who else? No, maybe you. That'd 
be awesome. That' be cool. I wouldn't do it, though. It just be you. Um, that's Wild Rogan 
got you into it. Maybe. Man, it's um I saw he follows you on Twitter, right? Yeah. From like 
forever ago, like when Twitter first came out, you know? I could see him liking your music. I 
know he likes hip-hop for sure. Oh, man. Well, that be that's interesting. Yeah. I don't know. 
I don't know what's up with Joe. I I I find him to be an interesting dude. Um but as far as DMT, 
Yeah, man. I think um I think you need to try it. That would be crazy. What's up, guys? I want to 
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Please support our show and tell them that we sent you. The way it came to me though was so 
weird because I I remember after hearing Joe Rogan talk about it. I I remember saying something on on 
MySpace just talking about like I'm very curious about it or and then I was in Australia. I was in 
Perth on New Year's New Year's Day. They celebrate day there um in summer. Yeah. So, as uh it was a 
a morning party that I was at. It was like must have been like noon or something like that. And 
I'm like throwing down. Played a really cool set. And I don't usually like toot my own horn if I 
don't deserve it, right? Like it was actually a good set. I played I was pretty wasted though 
too. So people like carried me outside. Carry my big ass outside. Like cuz I was so wasted. I'm 
like sitting out on on the patio of this venue and some dudes just random Aussies came up to 
me and just like dapped me up and was like, "Yo, I heard you want to try DMT." And just gave me 
like a fat sack of it and I like an idiot smuggled it all the way back to the States. I did a whole 
tour out there and smuggling it the whole way and brought it back. I I would never do anything like 
that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But uh but yeah, it was um it was some amazing stuff. I've never seen any DMT 
that looked like that ever since actually. Yeah. Do you feel like it changed the way you think 
after the experience? You know what? It didn't. But it it was more so validation to the idea that 
maybe there is some more than this. Yeah. I think that's what it was helpful for. Just showing you 
that there was there's way more going on. Yeah. Being behind the curtain, you know. And I think 
at that time in my life I needed it. You know, my mom had passed away like a months months before 
that. So I feel like it was really um a way for me to connect to the other side and still be here, 
you know. Um so yeah, I think again I don't I don't recommend it to everyone just because I 
I do feel like if you are susceptible Yeah. to, you know, um, schizophrenia or any of that kind 
of stuff, it could set you off. So, do you feel like the pain of your mother passing? You say 
that it kind of influenced Cosmic Grandma a lot, right? Yeah, absolutely. Was Do you feel like pain 
creates great art and it can spur on great art? Um, I think I think it's a weird one with that 
is I don't know if if that's real, but I'm just grateful to have art to turn to when I'm when 
I need to go to church. It's an outlet. Yeah. I need when I have to say something. I'm always so 
grateful for that to be able to create music um um whenever I need to go back to the source. It's 
kind of awesome like when you feel overwhelming emotions, you have like a thing that you can just 
port it into. Yeah. And I think a lot a lot of people don't have that. They don't. They don't. 
I'm really grateful for it because, you know, in a way I get I get my job is to go to therapy. 
Yeah. Yeah, pretty much is to just heal, you know, and and try to understand more about the world and 
the universe and stuff and ask questions through the music. It's a it's it's a great it's a great 
job. If you could smoke DMT with anyone in the UFO world, who would it be? Um, good question, man. 
I'd be down to smoke one Bob Lazar. I'd be down. I'd be down to get busy with Babazar in that way, 
man. That'd be fun. Yeah. Um I wouldn't, you know, I I respect that experience so much that it it 
would take a lot for me to do it again. Actually, I've only done it like two or three times. Okay. 
And uh to try it again would be a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder sometimes some of these UFOs 
might be like it's it's like the is is DMT like, you know, night vision or like infrared or 
something? And if you hook those up to the optic nerve, you could see that. And DMT is like 
another version of that where it's like a window into I think Jake Barber was talking about that 
without saying so. I think he was alluding to that a little bit and I think that maybe some of the 
other whistleblowers might have too, but like I do feel like there could be some connection. I at 
least the very least that maybe this is something that we were, you know, connected to a bit more 
um earlier in in our development as human beings, you know. Um maybe we were closer to God, 
closer to the source, closer to the stars. And um I think that part of that was maybe seeing some 
of those places that you can access on DMT. Yeah, totally. And I feel like the reason a lot of 
people don't believe Jake's story is the reason I do believe it because it involves this like mental 
connection. And I think for a lot of people it's like you are grouping in ETS or NH non-human 
intelligence along with psychic stuff. Give me a break. I'm not going to, you know, dude, I'm 
going be honest with you. It was a lot though. He dropped a lot on the day and it was like even for 
me someone who's like I'm trying to be down you know like I was like buddy you going to lose some 
people with that stuff second half of that story you should just stayed on the first half show the 
egg and let it let it go you know next interview you could talk about that but man he dropped a lot 
on it and didn't blink either I was like bro like go easy on it well both he and David Grush have 
this like googly eyed I' I've seen some [ __ ] look in that in both of their interviews with 
Ross Colter. I don't know if it's Ross' lighting or if like they've seen some [ __ ] you know, and 
like they have that, you know, kind of, you know, like I've seen something kind of gnarly. Grush 
blinks, though. Grush blinks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Jake about that, dude. I was just like, what is 
going on? Is he an alien or that's um I think he was a little chiller in my follow-up interview. 
Totally. Totally. And I'm just talking [ __ ] I'm just having a good time. But I I have so much 
respect for all those cats. Honestly, I think it's um they're all I think they're all brave to 
just even knowing how crazy the community is, knowing how crazy the the stakes are, all this 
stuff. I I do I do feel like that it's a level of courage that is is pretty next. And these 
people aren't media personalities. They're not trained to be in front of the camera and 
stuff. So, you know, we got to give them a pass. No, they they don't know what they're doing often. 
You kind of have to help hold their hand and stuff and like and they're scared and they I've see I 
see it firsthand cuz often I'll get thrown in with them or whatever. They get a lot of backlash 
like like they got Randy Anderson who he went underground and he saw this like gauntlet thing 
that like emitted hieroglyphics and he was he was stationed at Naval Surface Warfare crane 
in Indiana. in Indiana in 2014. He was taken down a bunch of floors in an elevator to a deep 
underground military base and then he was taken basically through a tunnel past a bunch of skiffs 
into something that said I think it was like um off off-world or offplanet technology. Yeah, 
I've heard about this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Was he talking to Greer? He was talking to Greer before 
I met him. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and I had been talking to him for 6 months. He was talking 
to UAP Gerb actually before I met him, too. Oh, cool, cool, cool. And I had some inklings that 
like this year was going to be kind of crazy as far as whistleblowers coming out. And I was 
like, dude, if there was ever a time I think you should come out now and he was in Vegas and 
came down to LA and but like right after that, you have all these guys being like he he's not 
a Green Beret and he didn't pass these tests and he wasn't at war. And it's like I spent I 
got dinner with him the night before. I spent a lot of time with him and his friends like 
hours and I've met, you know, two of his colle Yeah, that's right. That's right. I'm a They 
don't I don't believe you either. Yeah. Well, good. There you go. There you go. But I It's like, 
you know, and his friends are like, you hear their frustration and you see their DD214, like their 
background. You're like, is anybody seeing this? And then you have these people. I think it's fine, 
and I think he would even say it's fine to go after the experience. Be like, I don't know. Maybe 
that was [ __ ] Maybe he was SCOP, but when they then they go after his like background as like a 
war hero, it's like come on. It's a lot, man. It's a lot. And it's No one wants to deal with that. 
No. And anyone all these whistleblowers, they're watching how everyone's reacting to this stuff. 
They're doing their research. Why would anyone want to be put themselves out there like that to 
get picked apart and be called liars and all this stuff? And 100%. It's not cool. That's not fun. 
It's not fun. But I'm optimistic after this Wall Street Journal article. The reason being I think 
it's really interesting. They say it's all part of this Air Force hazing ritual, which is really dumb 
for the Wall Street Journal to say because I think then all of the witnesses around UFOs and nuclear 
weapons, all these Q cleared employees, all these guys sue the government, right? you know, or or 
Wall Street Journal will follow up and show the program that to the uh the American populace that 
there's like federal torture claims provisions and that so they they are they're [ __ ] cuz I think 
it's totally fake. There's no hazing ritual or if there have been it's been in little spots here and 
there that does not explain the whole thing. So, they kind of back themselves into this interesting 
corner. I think that's the problem is trying to blanket all of it ever, you know, is like I think 
so many of these things can be true. Personally, I think there's so many parts of it that that 
can be true. Um, you there could be there could be future human. There could be some grays. 
There could be some stuff that we're doing. It could be some stuff that China's doing. All these 
things can exist, I think. And it probably is my perspective. Yeah. I've been trying to figure out 
personally, well, how I feel about all this stuff still because I go through this eb and flow. Yeah. 
Of just kind of being like I'm always going to be fascinated. Yeah. But in terms of my own personal 
beliefs, I'm just kind of always like eb and flow with it. Like I'm really in or I'm like I'm 
like back in and I'm like I don't know. So it's it's it's really it's really uh something that 
fluctuates for me. But I think I'm always going to be curious. I'm always going to be following it 
whether or not, you know, I'm I believe it. I just think it's all fascinating, especially cuz it's 
all playing out on TV in Washington and, you know, we're having congressional hearings about it. It's 
crazy. What got you into it to begin with? Um, well, I mean, I've always been into sci-fi. I've 
always been into the idea of of aliens and stuff. I've never seen anything. And if I do, I probably 
can't say anything because I'm like the least credible person out there because he's like, 
"Yeah, of course Fly Loa saw the show." Like, of course he did. But no, I haven't seen anything. 
And um but I've always I've always felt that there there is more out there. And um I you know, I've 
made a film about I've made a couple films with alien themes. Yeah. Yeah. And um I think when I 
was filming Ash when we were filming that movie um Aaron Paul told me about uh David Grush. Mhm. 
Cuz that video the videos of him with Ross Cohart has just come out and I saw that on my timeline 
but I was kind of go through but then he was like yo man you got to check him out. I believe 
this guy and Aaron I you I don't I wouldn't have guessed that he was like really into the topic 
but um you know I watched it and then it kind of took me down the rabbit hole I guess. Um but um 
but Aaron yo he's he's wild. He he talked to Bob Lazar. He talked to Bob Lazar. Aaron Paul talked 
to Yeah. And like they were like writing messages to each other. I know I'd love to be a fly on the 
wall for that. I know. I know. So, you got to get him on the show sometime. I would love to. Well, I 
guess Breaking Bad is kind of a Vegasy show. Like, I don't I'm trying to think where that would even 
have occurred. I don't know how the connection is made, but like he's a fascinating 
character. Whoa. Well, Ash was amazing, man. I loved it. And this set kind of reminds me. 
I was texting you. I was like, this is not a set. We're in a spaceship. What are you talking about? 
We're in a spa. We're in an actual spaceship. And you have the coolest shirt. You want to show 
it to the camera? We got Loheed Martin Aurora antimatter matter reaction anti-gravity. It's 
crazy. I have another one too like the Loheed Martin reverse engineering program. No way. Yeah, 
it's it's ridiculous. I I think it's fascinating. I that whole thing that whole side of it has 
just been like just super interesting to me. So interesting the reverse engineering stuff and 
how much of that because there's definitely weird deception and like you know scops going on with 
aerospace and then how much of it is real because there's a lot of evidence that there's something 
there as well. Yeah. So it's fascinating. But it's funny that you said like of course Flyo's seen an 
alien. When I first heard your music, I was like, "This dude's an alien." Because I was super 
into like Dilla and Pete Rock and DJ Premiere, all these like 90s hip-hop producers. And then 
you came on the scene and I think I it might have been around your album Cosmogram or Los Angeles 
like 08 0, you know, 2010 era. And I just I saw you play actually with Thundercat in New York and 
I remember cuz like Dillow would mess people up because his stuff wasn't quantized. And then I 
remember hearing your stuff and I was like this guy's on another planet. Like this is crazy. 
Hey, well, you know, they made it okay. They made it okay for us to go there. Um, so Well, you 
took it to the next level, man. Hey, well, hey, doing my part. Doing my part. Yeah. But, you know, 
it's it's funny though because I got, you know, just like everybody else probably, I got a lot 
of flack in the beginning for doing my thing, you know, and being being that person. Like I 
I keep bringing this up lately because it's so bizarre to people, but like back when I was first 
getting on and the scene like in around like what 2004 um I get a lot of [ __ ] Can I say [ __ ] I'm 
a curs. Oh yeah. Yeah. As much as you want. I used to get a lot of [ __ ] for using a computer to 
make music. Really? Back in that back in the day instead of an NPC. Yeah. You had to have NPC, you 
know, or or SP or something like that or else you wasn't making hip-hop. You was making techno or 
computer music or whatever. They was just like, there's no way. There's no way you could you ain't 
there ain't no swing in that computer. You can't swing with that. So, it made me more determined to 
to like really get in there and get the sounds and to try different stuff and and I actually was was 
really encouraged earlier on in my development to, you know, just to do the other thing, just to 
try and go in different directions. And so, I owe a lot to the people around me really who 
supported me to just like not do not to do what everyone else was doing at the time. Well, you 
come from maybe the most kind of interesting musical family I could think of. Alice Col Train 
is your what is your great aunt. Is that right? And then uh Marilyn Mloud is your grandmother. 
And she she wrote Love Hangover and she also wrote uh was I get high or I get high is the Styles P um 
uh Swiss Beats sample. Uh but it's it's no it's it is I get high too, right? Yeah, the original 
free to paint. She wrote that as well. So, you just come from amazing, you know, family when 
it comes to this stuff. They still was looking at me like I was crazy though, dog. They're like, 
why does [ __ ] sound like some gar hitting on some garbage cans, you know, like why what is 
this? And uh I was like, but you guys are crazy, too. What are you talking about? Um but yeah, 
I had to find find my way just like u just like we all do. It is true. Your your drums I think 
set you apart so It's like that plus the crazy synths like the like sounded like it was like you 
you leaned into the computer thing. Yeah. And it was like that plus the drums which you know was 
like Yeah. It was like garbage was like back alley like crazy and I was like oh my god this is crazy. 
Yeah. Yeah. Well yeah just just went for it man. Just went for it. Um a lot of support from from my 
grandmother though. Um she was the first person to put a machine in my hands. you know, she had was 
the the 6 606, the TB 606 or something like that, like one of them drum machines with like, you 
know, those weird analog sounds and stuff in there and she was just like, "Here, take it." I 
was just making drum beats and stuff when I was really young and that was kind of what what set 
me up. And then wow just being around different family like my cousin he was making music on a 
a Mac 2CI like old old Mac like back when that was like super foreign to record on and um you 
know was watching him while I'm playing Sonic the Hedgehog. He's like making stuff that sounded like 
Prince stuff and like I was just always surrounded by music and always surrounded by people trying 
to make stuff. That makes sense you played Sonic the Hedgehog because it I feel like it's that 
Sega like wave racer vibe. Oh man, no doubt. And those loops, man, they still in my head, man. 
You know, and I still I still be sampling Sonic, too. Still to this day. That's awesome. Yeah. 
Yeah. So, was Alice a an inspiration for you early on? My aunt Alice was such an inspiration, 
but I feel like my appreciation for her and her music grow grew over time, you know, like when I 
was I feel like kind of in high school, all the stuff started to make more sense to me and I was 
really starting to see it. But then when I went to college and really started like vibing there and 
like you know trying mushrooms and stuff like and like you know leaving my brain and stuff I'm like 
oh I get it for real now. You know it was really starting to make sense. And um and I had just the 
deepest appreciation for it. But you know still to this day like I feel like every other year I'll go 
back and listen to music that she made and just be like whoa what was she doing? How did she do that? 
Why why is she do that? That was a weird choice. Great choice, but you know, like I'm still still 
picking it apart after all these years. And you said you never saw her practice. I never saw her 
practice. Never in my in my entire and I you know she was like the cold train side though. They're 
like the closest family to me in LA. And um so I spent a lot of time over there. I you know I went 
to this to the school right by their house. So I walk from school to hang out over there all the 
time. And you know, I would see them very often. I never saw her practice. Never. And um I remember 
one one time when I was like maybe like 10, 11 years old, I went over to the house and she had 
a beautiful piano, beautiful grand Steinway piano. Um surrounded by, you know, her harp and all these 
amazing instruments. I went in there. I was like, "Hey, can I go play your piano?" Yeah. She 
was like, "Well, are you going to play it?" I was like, I don't I don't know actually. What do 
you think she meant by that? She meant am I going to get down, dude? Like, don't mess around, you 
know, like don't go in there like messing around on my piano. You going to go in there and play 
it. Whoa. You go play it, but you better play. So, I was like I took that like I So, I didn't do 
it. I never touched that thing ever. And she was very kind of spiritually tapped in as well, 
right? Oh man. Yeah, she was the most she was the most tapped in, I would say. Yeah, there's 
a lot of influence, but I guess it would be more non-denominational leaning, but um but yeah, a 
lot of a lot of influence there. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah, she's amazing. I mean, just hearing what's 
it? I think it was Tia and Rama Christishna. It's like that old blues kind of vibe and it's 
just so be it's like ethereal and beautiful and you're like where is this coming from? It's 
amazing. It's wild because it can always be you can always hear the blues and then it 
just goes to some other just crazy places. And I remember being with her in in Paris once. 
She she had me come with her and and Robbie, they play a show in Paris toward the end of her 
life. And um I just remember just hearing her, you know, she was like a she was like Yoda, you 
know, she was like a Yoda type person where she was like real she was really tiny and you know 
moved very slowly, very gentle with everything, but you know she just when she went all that 
pe boom was busting out all crazy, you know, like who is this person? It was like even 
even Rodney, her son, she was like, "Whoa, what is going on?" You know, so like she just had 
she was tapped in for sure to to the source. Well, John was tapped in as well. I mean, I think he 
might be at least top three, maybe favorite jazz musician of all time or are you a fan of his? 
Absolutely. Absolutely. And and I think I think I was a fan of his first. And it was it's funny 
because when I was growing up and I would people would want to talk to my aunt and be around people 
want to talk to her. I always want to talk to her about John Cold Train. All they want to talk to 
her about is like what was it like being around John Culture. What was he like? What was he like? 
and she would always answer very humbly and you know and then now it's like everyone wants to talk 
about Alice Co and it's it's really awesome to see that just to see the turn happen but I I do wish 
she was here to to see her her influence um in the way because I feel like now I'm hearing way more 
about her than him even though he's you know I go to sushi restaurant it's always John Cole straight 
you know in there but like I just feel like the the young the young folks around are really vibing 
on her music right now and it's really cool to see. Absolutely. Well, she really I think just 
pushed the envelope and experimented. Obviously, he was amazing too, but um that is cool to see and 
it's interesting how music kind of like your UFO interest es and flows and changes and how do you 
feel like do you feel like it's in an interesting place right now? Do you feel like it's in a weird 
place like music? Is that even a Is that even a a question you can ask or is it just it is what it 
is or like you know as far as the industry and all that stuff? I I can separate it and think about 
it in terms of like the actual music itself and there's always some good stuff going on. Always 
always interesting. You just got to look for it. Yeah. You got to seek it out. But, you know, if 
you're only going to listen to what the charts are telling you, then you're probably going to be 
thinking it's it's all the same. It's definitely weird that it's now filtered by is the person a 
good social media personality. That's weird to me. Absolutely. And like the numbers like people 
people even see like okay well they only have certain amount of listeners on Spotify so they're 
probably not that good. Yeah. They're probably not that great. They only got like 10,000 listeners 
every month. So they're probably right. It's this like infinite force ranking of everything. 
Absolutely. Everything's a beauty contest. Oh, dude. Yeah. And I feel like in the past 10 years, 
you know, the the numbers thing really got into the fandoms of rappers and stuff like, you know, 
first week sales and stuff like people are like kids are talking about rappers first week sales 
like selling what what are people selling anymore? Like y'all buying records and stuff out here? What 
is what is it's just it's super weird that that's actually part of the conversation in terms of like 
is something good or interesting. It's like what are they selling? How how much are they moving? 
How many units are they moving? Like it's like old barbershop conversation or something that has 
now become like a a very very popular bit of the conversation unfortunately. Well, you started an 
amazing record label, Brain Feeder. Do you feel like and I didn't even realize some of the people 
you had signed Yeah. I was independently fans of and doing research for I was like like who I was 
like to Taylor McFaren like I was like I was like of course he signed him like it's like similar 
drums and like of course you'd be into Taylor McFaren. Oh I love like that when I first heard 
I think it was Degrees of Light. I was like like this is crazy. Like what is this? It reminded me 
of you a little bit and Detilus and I'm trying to think, there were a couple others on there where 
I was like, damn, I didn't even know you guys had worked together. Yeah. Yeah. Brain Feeder has 
been going for a minute, man. It's been going for a minute and it's it's something that I'm actually 
really really proud of because it's it's you know something that is kind of flourishing on it on its 
own at this point you know and I'm still doing a lot of work with brain feeder and curating and you 
know an ANR side but you know that that's like a it's a machine that's moving and it's awesome 
to see and maybe through that you can fight back a little bit where it's like I don't care 
if you have 10,000 weekly streams or whatever. I love it. Absolutely. And um you know it's it's 
become a thing where it's there's a lot of risk in a personal sense because I want to do right 
by the artists. But as far as everything else, there's no risk for me. You know, I'm not trying 
to make money there. I'm not it's really not my source of income like that. It is, but it's not, 
you know, at the same time. So, I just was like, it's it's my a passion project, but like I've been 
so grateful to be able to see all these different artists flourish and have their careers and, 
you know, they're doing their thing being there. Yeah. Super cool. Is there anybody you're into now 
that the public probably doesn't know about? Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Um, there's a there's an artist 
just named Thing. Okay. Just Thing drum and bass. some drum bass, like classic drum bass, but 
sometimes we'll mix up some like some like um UK like twostep, you know, kind of gar UK garage 
kind of vibe um you know, smaller following. Uhhuh. Doesn't matter. Don't care. But like I'd be 
in the gym just like doing a listen to amen breaks and stuff like Yeah. So it be it's kind of random. 
But um and the cat puts out stuff like every week. It's pretty I know. It's thing. Yeah. Thing. Go 
check out Thing. Thing is dope. Thing is dope. Yeah. Sick, man. Yeah. And you've worked with some 
of the most legendary artists like I mean, one of the guys I feel like you're just probably friends 
first and then collaborator second is Thundercat, who I saw you live with in New York. Um, he's 
amazing, man. He's so awesome. And he he credits you for having helped give him a voice and cuz he 
was just playing bass primarily, right? And you kind of helped him out and you were like, "Look, 
man, you should just sing over your over your tracks. Is that right?" Yeah. He was doing some 
oo and a's on stuff. And I was like, "What's going on?" You know, let's do it. And and then there was 
one day I'll never forget and I I think about it all the time. We were sitting in my apartment, my 
sweaty apartment in Northridge. Um, and he just, you know, we're working on some music. I have 
these like like portable portable lunch tables. They're like, they're like, uh, you know, the 
classic picnic tables or whatever. That's what I had all my my gear set up on. And it was like 
surrounded by all these like medicinal marijuana jars and it was Yeah. He just looks over at me 
and he was like, "Man, I want to be your artist." And I I was like, "Yeah, what does that 
even mean?" You know what I'm saying? Like, what does that even mean? I never have never 
done that sort of thing before. And um yeah, we've just been going at, man, ever since we just 
been going for it. And it's it's been awesome to see. and and honestly something I take so much 
pride in aside from my own work is you know just seeing how his music and his message and his 
influence has affected the world. Yeah. You see, he's another guy who like, you know, back in 
the day, I think was always respected like as a almost like an artist artist where it was like 
he's amazing on the bass and then like in the last 5 years I feel like people are just like everybody 
knows who Thundercat is, which is so cool to see. Yeah. I I was just randomly had dinner and they 
they're playing his music just randomly, you know, and it just comes along like let's go. Yeah. I 
love it. I love it. Is he into alien stuff? Like I could see he seems like such a like a fun kind of 
goofy personality. Like I could see him being into I feel like he's you know he's kind of like come 
over the house and I got like some weird alien YouTube videos on. I'm like I turn him off real 
quick. I'm not watching any of that stuff. No, but I don't think he's really into it. Okay. Okay. 
I don't think he's super into the the stuff. Um but you know because he's probably an alien. He 
don't want to be exposed. You know he doesn't want Exactly. They don't like the exposure. Or 
maybe you'd act into it like you. You never know. Maybe. Maybe. We might be. You know, it might be 
Walking Among Us. Right. Right. Maybe. Maybe. Um, I want to list some artists and you've either 
collaborated with them or you might have something to say about them. I want to get just one sentence 
about each of these guys. Okay. Jay Dilla. O man. Um, one of the greatest ever. Um, very grateful 
to have met him uh a couple times close to the end of his life. Um, I feel like I saw him maybe 
a week or two before he passed away. It's crazy. I delivered a check to his house. Yeah, let's tell 
that. You told me this story. So crazy. I used to work at Stones Throw um back in the day and he 
Were you like you were like I was an intern. Yeah, I was intern there. Um a paid intern. Okay. I 
was working there long enough they had to had to start kicking me down a little bit. Um but um 
yeah, I I was there and uh yeah, he was finishing up the donut stuff that was that was happening. 
Uh, Mad Live Sound Directions is he was doing that. It was like he started Mad Live starting 
to play drums live and stuff and that was kind of like that the time I was there. Um, and yeah, 
they were they were finishing up some business and they they sent me over the house like, "Yo, 
um, you might see something over there. Just, you know, be cool." Cuz he wasn't in really good 
shape, you know, toward the end. He had like a a blood disorder or blood cancer or something. Uh 
lupus and and I don't know what else. But but something else I think something else was going 
on too. But um but yeah, I was I I got to see him. The machines were still going, you know, 
he was in a wheelchair. He looked really bad, man. I cried after I left there. I was like I was 
fully in tears just cuz damn. Not only because of what I saw, but just because I still felt the 
energy. I still felt the power still. I felt the the the the force and it was strong still, man. It 
was really strong even toward the end. And it was um it was really really um it was a lot, but 
it was I was very impressed that even then, you know, the everything was still lit up. He was 
still working on some [ __ ] Was he good energy? Was he Was he? Oh, he was great. Yeah, he was 
great. And And you know, I could tell he didn't want anyone to see him like that. And that was 
the thing, too. Was like I could I didn't really want to look him in the eye, bro. Just cuz I just 
tell he didn't But he still was like holding it together. And Yeah. And he was at Common's house, 
right? Common. Yeah. I think they were Yeah, they were living together. But yeah, his mom's 
was taking care of him around him, too. Yeah. Yeah. you listen to some of those tracks like 
that um Eley Brothers sample don't say goodbye he call it bye or whatever and you're like oh my 
god he's like saying goodbye and it's so ethereal it's so like it's crazy middle or donuts of the 
heart that um Jackson 5 sample it's like yeah when when I was there I think it was it was finishing 
up the shining the shining stuff was happening donuts was already done by by then we were already 
like hearing all that stuff in the office and you know we were getting like doughut deliveries you 
know and like there was like a couple beats coming through and we would like gather around the record 
player and like or whatever and just be like oh what's going on you know just be like blown away 
by interesting so he was doing the shining after donuts well yeah I think there was there was 
still little es and little and flow little bits and pieces that were kind of like you know still 
lying around for um for donuts like I I think um can't remember exactly which one, but there was 
some stuff that wasn't all finished. It wasn't all finished and delivered. There was like pieces of 
that and I think Shining was finished by I think JRock or Kareem Rigggins back back then. So Okay. 
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Stones Throw was so interesting. Like what a constellation of amazing. It was, you 
know, Peanut Butter Wolf started uh with him and Charisma and San Jose and then they came to LA 
kind of for Mad Lib who was blowing up at the time and like man was that an inspiration for you 
brain feeder and just being there. It was a huge inspiration. Um before I you know I was actually 
living in San Francisco studying film and a buddy of mine was like you know he was we call him Crazy 
John cuz he was crazy. He was insane dude but he had he had great taste in music and he was like 
oh you like hip-hop well you need to listen to LP you need to check out MF Doom Metal Fingers. 
Okay, Victor Vaughn, Mad Lib. I was like, "Okay, I'm going to check these people out." And I went 
and bought these records and my mind was blown and I was like, you know, just, yeah, started getting 
back into making beats. I made beats when I was younger, but when I was in college, I and like 
hearing that stuff, I was really I got really into it again, like and more so on the sampling 
side because all the stuff I made before was kind of like synth based and you know, messing with um 
groove boxes and then that was like the gateway into sampling, getting back into that stuff. 
Um listen to Wuang and hearing all that. But favorite Wuang Clan member, the Risen. Of course. 
Yeah. Hard to argue with producer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Although Jiza had some amazing beats, too. 
Absolutely. Amazing beats. Absolutely. Bizo Heart and Soul. Yeah. Yeah. But but yeah, when I was 
when I was in school, I remember just being like, you know what? I'mma skip history of film school 
history of film and just like work on some beats right now. Wow. I'd be doing that. And then I 
heard about this label Stones Throw that was in LA back home and I was like, you know, maybe I need 
to The whole scene was in LA, too. So, I was like, man, I need to get out of San Francisco, go back 
and be around these people and get in that energy. So, that that kind of led me back there. Stone 
Throw brought me back in a weird way. I love it. All right, let's keep going on the artist. Sorry, 
I was only supposed to give you a sentence. No, no, this always happens. I love it. It's uh it's 
uh we're flowing. Um, no wonder your shows are like three hours. Yeah, man. It's just It's always 
just I think the best conversations are just free association. Just what you're you know, whatever 
comes up. Yeah, sure. Sure. Sure. Um, speaking of which, you just named two people I was going to 
ask you about. So, let's go Mad Lib first and then uh MFD. Oof. Okay. Um, Mad Lib was was definitely 
one of the most inspiring folks around. Um, considering he was one of those people who 
was like, "Oh, it don't matter what you use, you know." And I'm like, "Okay, well, I use a 
computer, you know, it don't matter. Just make something." And then it was like the output, you 
know. I I remember being being interned and they showed me the like the the box, you know, of 
like all the Meline beat tapes or whatever and they were like, "All right, you know, check these 
check these out." And it was like it was insane just being a like it'd be like hundreds of beats 
or like he would fill up all these CDs. Crazy. And I would listen to all them joints, man, just be 
like, "Wow, what is going on?" You know, and just crazy. And it would make me feel lazy, you know? 
It just made me feel lazy and it just but also it was one of those things that just kind of lit 
the fire. It's like, okay, I need to work on this thing. I need to keep going. There you go. So, 
it was uh he was definitely influential in that and just the energy, you know, he was just such 
a cool, humble person and you know, whenever I got to be around him, it was just like a it was a 
special day. It was always a special day just cuz you know he was he just had such a an impact on on 
the whole community too. Like there was aside from you know the the stones throw thing you had this 
kind of adjacent squad of of producers who would hang out kind of around like the any kind of stone 
throw related event. You know, there would be like the cast like Debbiosi and George M. Moldro, 
Ross G, you know, Take and all these other great um producers who went on to go and do great 
things. We started to build a community kind of on the side of what they were doing. And you 
know, we'd be out front of whatever parties they were throwing without with boom boxes playing each 
other's beat tapes and stuff. And that was really, you know, oh man, Mad came by earlier, you 
know, with, you know, dudes who worked at, you know, Pooh Records and Amoeba, they'd be 
like over there like, "Yeah, man. He came in, he got this record, this, that, whatever." So, it' 
always be like, um, you know, legendary Mad Live stories of what's going on. Um, but always always 
really influential and really inspiring. And he wasn't Quasimoto like an accident like that's how 
prolific he was like I think Peanut Butter Wolf like found that or something was like dude this is 
actually pretty cool and then he kind of ran with it. Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly. Yeah. So crazy. 
Yeah man. Um and Doom Yeah. Doom was I mean to me he's he's my favorite rapper still to this day, 
you know. I think um he's kind of he mastered the the the persona of of this the the character he 
created, you know? He really did. He was really the villain, bro. Like I mean all the stories you 
heard about Doom are true. I don't know. They're not It's not legend. It's all true. Uh like not 
showing up to stuff. Like not showing up to stuff. Like not showing up to stuff. I remember there 
was there was a gig we invited Doom, you know, um I I had a show in in London and he was going 
to play and you know, we fly out to I fly out to London. I think he's already there cuz he had 
been deported or something. I think he was already living in the UK. Uhhuh. So we're like, great, get 
doomed on stage, you know. Um and I think as we were soundchecking, we're I'm in the venue. Yeah. 
Yeah. This is like this is the day I think day before because we had to set up the whole visual 
show. The day before he cancelled the gig. Uh and uh it was that's kind of unheard of. I mean, you 
hear that. Oh, okay. Well, but doing that sort of thing in this business is not cool, especially 
when you have flyers and all this stuff promoting everything. We actually got J Electronica to fill 
in that spot, which is also a really crazy thing to do is he's also like he's another guy. It's 
like you never know when he's going to release his album or show up or but I think I think he had 
reasons to come visit the UK and uh well he was uh is he married to like a Roth's child? I didn't 
want to go there. I did. I did. I went there. I wasn't I said it for you. I said he had a reason. 
I don't know what the reason is still. Um but yeah, very elite reason. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 
Um but he came out and rocked it. It was wild. But um yeah, it was it was really it was really scary. 
And that was that moment. I was like, "Oh, wow. He really is the villain. He he doomed me, dude. 
I got doomed right here." Um but man, you know, it's like after that happened, we just kind Well, 
it's the villain. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what he does. I feel like he's just the most elusive 
interesting like I don't know. It's interesting with him too where we were just talking about 
Thundercat, you know? I feel like 10 years ago it was still more kind of underground hiphop 
obscure circles were hardcore fans of Doom. Now he's on Tik Tok like he is mass media like Biggie. 
They they biggied him, man. It's it's wild. It's wild. It's super cool to see. Mhm. I just for some 
reason I just thought of like the first time I met Doom though. I met him at at Peanut Butterwolf's 
Halloween party. I was like bathrobe man cuz that was all I had was a bathrobe. I couldn't I didn't 
have any other costume but you had I like a dude in a bathrobe and some sunglasses. I'm Hugh 
Hefner. And uh and Doom shows up. He just got into town. He just he just shows up as himself of 
course. Um, and I'm like, you know, hey man, how's it going? How what's how you living? How how long 
are you in town? You you welcome to LA. How long you out here? And he was like, can I trust you? 
It's like that like I hope so. You know, like that was the first thing that was his response to me. 
And I was like, okay, damn. He's a he's a special special cat. Very special. Well, you hear him way 
back in the day. We were talking about this last time when we hung out. He was in a group called 
Third Base and he is in that song Gas Face and his voice is like different. He seems like more of 
like like he's trying to be this like more square like cut and dry rapper. Yeah. Like tribe Call 
Quest vibe a little bit. 100% early 90s. And then he like goes off grid. I think he's homeless for 
a while and he comes back as Doom and you're like, "Oh my god." Like his voice is different and man 
Yeah. He he'd been through something. He was, you know, he'd been through a lot actually. But 
um but yeah, there was there's something about it. He locked in. He he figured it out. He just 
fully embraced the villain. Yeah. I think there's um a really cool movie to make. Definitely. Why 
don't you make it? You're the You are the most qualified because you make amazing movies. I am 
the most qualified producers 100%. an estate. You knew the guy. You made music as close to that 
genre. You have a You were on a track with him, Between Villains with uh Captain Murphy. There's 
two tracks. Yeah, there's two tracks. There was uh we're supposed to do EP together. He had a 
whole bunch of stuff on his computer, you know, the the classic classic tale of like a hard drive 
full of stuff and a lot of it there's a lot of my stuff on there. Um and uh what's going to happen 
to that? Let's get that out. I don't know. I don't know. Estate. Estate movie and hard drive. Yeah. 
Um Thundercat actually got to see him close to the end. He went I think he saw him at his house in in 
London. He was over there. He was he was staying in London for a while. So, got to have him talk 
about that. Oh, I'm curious. That's amazing. Okay, let's keep going with the the crazy list. Uh 
Kendrick. O actual genius. M actual genius. Weird little guy. I remember asking Kendrick, yo man, 
what books are you reading? He was like, oh man, I I don't be reading, man. You know, power of now. I 
was like I was like, okay, all right, that's cool. Yeah, I was so so surprised someone like him who 
has so much to say and um very thoughtful didn't didn't read didn't like reading books and stuff. 
I just felt like it was all in there. I thought it was all books. I felt like he was always 
referencing books in his work. He is referencing I wonder if he Some people are just kind of tapped 
in too and they're channeling and it's just like yeah actual genius. He um you know the kind of 
person that shows up, writes it on the spot, does no fanfare. Yeah. You know, he came through 
wearing some like, you know, some some slippers with some socks on and wearing some shorts and 
a hoodie and just kind of, you know, just kind of came through and killed it, bro. Like, um 
would you say best battle rapper of all time? I wouldn't put it in the battle rapper category. 
Personally, I think he's he's he's definitely one of the most important voices in in music. Um to 
Pimp a Butterfly is is classic album. Amazing. Um yeah, I I have one of those people, too. You're 
just like it's it's so you're like, "Wow, okay. I don't want to get in your way. I don't want I 
actually don't want to be I don't want to be near you. I just want you to be able to exist and not 
you know like it's there's something very um he has this sort of um I don't know this vibe about 
him where he's just like super quiet. Yeah. Maybe he's in his head. He don't say much. So I just was 
like I just want him to do his thing. I don't want to interfere or interrupt whatever his whatever 
is going on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Who's who's uh top five for you MC's? He's up there. Um if not, 
you know, number, you know, top three at least. Yeah. Him, Doom, man. This is the worst question 
to ask. I'm on camera. Like I don't suddenly don't know anybody. They've all fallen off the face of 
the earth right now. Um what else you got? I got I got I got a couple more I want to get through. 
Q-Tip. Oo, Q-Tip. He's a super super inspiring dude. Um amazing producer that um as well as 
rapper. Um I think he didn't get he doesn't get enough credit as producer uh from my perspective. 
Yeah. Yeah. Really great beats. Um really great energy. The voice. Mhm. Um I don't know him that 
well, but we try to collaborate on some stuff. I think sometimes the thought of working together is 
better than the result sometimes. You know, but um uh I would love to to have another go. Yeah. 
At that. Yeah, for sure. What about Aex twin? AEX is is uh interesting interesting in that 
because you know he was he was one of those people that I listened to back before I was in 
college without knowing who or what or why. It didn't matter. It was just dope. It was just cool 
electronic music to me. Um Square Pusher Aman Tobin those guys were kind of like in my sphere. I 
wasn't like fully in the electronic zone. Yeah. Um but those were like the kind of auxiliary pillars 
uh for for my ears. Um but and I always found a lot of inspiration from the music videos. Um Chris 
Cunningham videos and when they did that director series back in the day, the DVDs, they had just 
had all the collections of music videos from like Chris Cunningham, Michelle Gandry and and so on. 
Um, and I always just would run those. We'd run those so much and just like just pick them apart 
just cuz, you know, being a in film school and thinking about music, music videos, like those 
were the the most cutting edge. Mhm. Those were, you know, that series, the director series. I 
wish they would re-release those on, you know, 4K whatever things now, but I don't think it'll ever 
happen. Yo. Okay. Final one in this series. Kanye. You know Kanye. It's funny, man. I actually 
I never really had the like I'm a super Kanye fan. I never had that thing. But I did love 
Jesus. I didn't like it when I first heard it. then it really grew on me and I think that that 
album regardless of what you know he has become. I feel like that album was really really ahead of 
its time and it it set a tone for many years in in music, not just hip-hop, just in music in general. 
I think that sound um it kind of expanded and it people took it in different directions and um I 
think you know there's so much of like electronic music that has come from that and hip-hop and the 
intersection that very influential stuff. Yeah. But but yeah, what a [ __ ] nutcase. Yeah. Yeah, 
man. I'm not one of those Kanye sympathizers, man. I'm really not. I fell off the train when he 
said slavery was a choice. I was off that mother You're tripping. Yeah. I'm going to get off 
now. You're fully fully tripping. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I just hope he's okay, man, cuz he's 
musically a big inspir. I love him. I think he's amazing. And I just wish uh I don't know. I wish 
he would just stop whatever is going on now. Oh, I don't it's it feels like it's he's definitely 
trying to get a rise. Like it's like if there is a third rail, he'll touch it. He'll hit it. And 
then there's some other part where like is he even in control? Like I don't I don't know. Yeah. 
Well, you know, mental illness is a thing, man. Yes. It's a thing. And people are capable of being 
very successful and mentally ill at the same time. Um that is a thing often they're correlated. Yeah. 
Right. And um also too like you know the dude he's just like yeah got probably like a lot of yes men 
around people like enablers people just like I mean he's got a cult you know people who are still 
apologizing for him constantly and just be like oh he you know he's just he's he's going through it 
you know but it's also got to be really hard for someone like him to have been at the top of of the 
music pyramid or whatever and to now just kind of just be existing among other other great people, 
not being the greatest top selling most Grammy collecting person or whatever. Like it's got to be 
a little little difficult for you. 100%. A little fall from grace there. Yeah, it's got to be it's 
got to be it's got to weigh on you. Mhm. Who are your biggest inspirations when it comes to film 
making? You put David Lynch in one of your videos and songs. You already know. You already know. Um, 
did I just answer it for you? Yeah, I think you did. I think you did. Um, yeah, David Lynch. Woo. 
He was Do you have a favorite David Lynch movie? Favorite David Lynch movie is probably Eraser 
Head. That's makes sense because of the movies you make there. That is such a crazy movie. Yeah, it's 
it's a crazy all this stuff is pretty out. Lost Highway. So, I got into David Lynch through being 
a fan of Trent Resnner back in the day, which is really I it trips me out when I think about it cuz 
he worked on Lost Highway. He did some music for Lost Highway and I was following him at that time. 
Okay. And then I was like, "Oh, what's this movie? Who's this guy?" Lost Highway. Loved it. Um, and 
then I kind of got way in at that point and that was he was one of those people too um early on 
where I was like, "Oh, maybe maybe I should go to film school. Maybe this is for me cuz I really I 
really love this. I really love this." And I think he also really got me inspired aside from the film 
making more so like the living the art life as they say, you know, where you just kind of fully 
commit. You just you're fully you're fully in it, you know? That guy is tapped in. Yeah. You wake 
up, you smoke, and you you get to work, and you you that's your life. That's just create. Yeah. 
That's your life. And that's how I live my life. S's the smoking part. I' It was weed, but I' i've 
given that up a bit. Um but yeah, like um seeing that and seeing that it worked for someone and 
that they've made their their best the some of the best things. It's like, okay, it's okay for me to 
be this way. Oh, yeah. You know, it's I can I can do this and I can live this way and it's okay, you 
know, you kind of make sacrifices the you know, you have to have like whatever that regular life 
is. Um, it's almost like his life itself is art. Like you see him doing the weather in the morning 
and I remember I ended up at his house because of some TM, you know, transcendental meditation 
benefit. Yeah. And he was giving some speech and it was about, you know, he's like, "All 
you got to do is tap in twice a day, you know, the whole TM thing." And I was like, "This guy's 
on another level." Like he's on another planet right now and he's getting downloads and he's he's 
truly amazing. And I feel like a lot of filmmakers try to do the David Lynch thing and they fail. 
Like they it's so hard. Yeah. Well, I think I think um the issue comes from you people still 
feeling like they need to satisfy the audience and and have some sort of like making sure everyone 
knows what's happening and having closure. And it's like there's a difference where I think with 
his work, it's more so about how something feels versus how something what mean what it means or 
um what it's supposed to do or where the story is supposed to go. It's more so the feeling that it 
it gives you. And I think he always tells people that you know what it means. Yeah. Even if you 
don't think you do. Yes. Yeah. And it's it truly I feel like he'll break a lot of sacred cows or 
you know do things that you're not supposed to do but it like it just works. And yeah, I'd say Blue 
Velvet for me is one of my favorite movies of all time. It's so good and it's so good. I love that 
one too cuz it's a it's such a good gateway David Lynch movie because it on it starts off you know 
like most movies in a way it starts off kind of simply and it actually of all the stuff it is kind 
of more commercial leaning um so it's one of those ones and but yeah but and they have those moments 
I I'll never forget the scene near the end spoiler alert uh that uh you know what they deserve curve 
for it. If you haven't seen Blue Velvet, do you you can you show a clip of this? Can you show 
a clip of this? I might be able to. We'll try. Maybe a frame. Yeah, we throw show a little frame 
for sure. All right. So, the frame is is when um what's the guy's name? Um what's his name 
in Kyle McLolin? Kyle Kyle McLaclin. Yeah, the main character. Um when he walks into home 
girl's apartment and some [ __ ] had already gone down and there's the the detective who's like 
wearing a yellow suit. Mhm. And he's just standing there. He already been shot in the head, but he's 
he's standing there still. I love that image so much. It was so haunting, dude. Like, that kind 
of thing. It's just so surreal and such a kind of like, wait, is this a mainstream movie? Is this 
not? But it's just one of those things like that's you even see his painting background right there 
cuz that's like that's just like some uh Yeah. some bugged out and I feel it's a juxiposition 
between this like suburban like kind of fake Yeah. light vibe like in the first scene I think 
is like some dude watering the garden or whatever and he like chokes himself fire trucks going by 
all the Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's he's the best man. M. And so you like how many years it been like 
eight years that you've been making movies now or have or maybe before that on a smaller scale or 
how long have you been making movies? Um well if you want to go there uh for a while I I started 
messing around with camera a long time ago when I was when I was a kid. Um, when I was in film 
school, I made a a short film called Use Me, which won the audience award at the time. Um, 
and I was I've just been always messing around with stuff. My friends have seen all my work, 
but the rest of the world hasn't. Dude, I love it. It's crazy. Like Cuso and and VHS and and Ash 
are all epic and they break your brain. Like they it's what art is supposed to be, I think. Like 
it's really they're all insane. So everybody got to go watch Kuso was fun and it's Kuso's crazy my 
favorite. Yeah, Kuso is fun because it's at that point now where people are re-examining it and 
they're like man that movie I love Kuso and but at the time people were just like what the [ __ ] 
were you thinking? What are you doing? You can't do this. You can't do this. And it was it was 
really right that movie came out like right before you couldn't really do anything anymore. M it was 
like right when they started like oh little cancel culture right right then and I I feel like I felt 
that coming on like you know just peoples were getting a little sensitive to stuff and but I feel 
like now because things have gotten so stale in a way something like that kind of stands out it's 
coming back. Yeah, I think like Gen Z, Gen Alpha, I think they're just like, "Fuck this." Like, 
"We like good art. Like, it's all good." Some of the people who saw Ash were like, "Oh, man. I 
don't know. It's not like Kuso, man." I'm like, "All right, fair enough." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's 
definitely not Cuso. No, Cuso is the will break your brain. Ash is a little more of a a movie 
movie like structured. And Ash is amazing, man. And I feel like it like really plays on themes 
that are growing in the zeitgeist right now. It's kind of the AI theme a little bit and it's also, 
you know, it's a little bit of the pandemic COVID thing going on as well where you have this kind of 
braeing like, you know, parasite that takes over. Uh, I don't want to spoil that either. You spoiled 
it already. I might have just spoiled it. Yeah, let it happen. Just let it happen. That's cool. 
But um, that was amazing. It's an amazing cast. It's funny though cuz when I think of that movie 
now, I feel like if only I had done it now that I know so much about the, you know, the the lore, 
the UFO phenomena lore. Yeah. It would probably be a little different or I would have a different 
take on some of the stuff that I did. Um, how so? I don't know off top, but I just feel like now I 
should be making the alien UFO stuff and maybe the next one will be, but um I feel way more qualified 
to tackle the topic now just because I've been so deep in it, you know, but you know, there are so 
many stories to tell, you know, so many so many that are that are, you know, one of those things 
where it's like It's stranger than fiction. I was You just took the words out of my mouth. I was 
like, that's what I love about the UFO topic is it is weirder than fiction. Yeah. And that's a 
cliche to say, but it's true. You hear some of these stories, you're like, what happened? And 
then you're like sitting in front of the guy and you're like, you have no mental health history and 
you were in a high position in government and like he got security clearances, all that. He's he's 
saying all that. Yep. Wild. Wild. Wild. But yeah, I I find so much inspiration in just listening 
to the stuff. Whether or not it's true or not, it doesn't matter. It's like I just find it 
fascinating. I'm like, "Yeah, keep talking." Well, I can't wait to see the Fly Low UFO alien movie. 
Neither can I. Neither can I. And neither can my friends cuz I can't stop talking to them about it. 
So, they're ready. I love it. It's one of those things where once you go go down the rabbit hole, 
it's like hard to not be annoying about it. Like, I know. I I I really had to just try 
to just not go there. But you know, some people be like, "All right, so what give me 
the doubt of what's going what's been going on, you know, and you always get looped back in." 
You you get tired of it and you're like, "Ah, this is crazy. There are all these scops. There 
are all these full of [ __ ] people." And then you take a break and then something happens. You're 
like [ __ ] back. Yeah. Yeah. True, true. Yeah, man. when that when that damn um cuz I used to 
really [ __ ] with um Jeremy Corbel and George Knap, but then when Jeremy Corbel went on that 
whole tangent about the the missing page and the fact that he his name was taken off of 
the whole thing and it just really rubbed me the wrong way. That whole thing made a big 
old stink about it. Yeah, it was weird. And it was obvious that it's like it's not about you. 
It's not about you. Yeah. Yeah. It was like that That's an official government document. And what 
really got me was Matthew Brown met Shelonburgger before Jeremy. Right. Right. So it's like and 
he's not putting a cover letter promoting his podcast or what. So like I didn't I didn't 
quite get that. Are you going to separate the Matthew Brown interview into three parts? 
Tune in next week kids for the next episode of Disclosure. Yeah. I like Jeremy but yeah. I mean, 
I'm still watching this [ __ ] so obviously I do, too. But it's just it's it's all the stuff just 
makes me it it makes the unease part well in totally. Well, Matthew Brown also requires a 
follow-up. Like, yeah, the stuff that he said, it was like, you know, I I saw these documents, 
Immaculate Con. Here's the maybe the weirdest, most interesting thing. It was like I figured 
out Immaculate Constellation. Lou Alzando's name was tied to that program. And then Lou Alzando is 
testifying with Michael Shaenberger saying um you know I can't confirm or deny whether I was read 
in basically saying I was read into this [ __ ] So it's like Lou like tell us man like and then 
you have Corbel like doing speaking tours with Lou and stuff. So it's like let's take this thing 
a little bit further. And then Matthew Brown gets into he just tweeted the other day. I don't know 
if you saw I didn't see it. Oh, he tweeted the weirdest like it was like talking about how the 
White House has like a crystal ball basically like they have some proprietary AI that like predicts 
future timelines which is from a story based like if I were in trying to be inspired for like a 
movie like so interesting but like it's like dude what where are you getting that like it's that's 
fascinating like that would be crazy if true crazy if true and I want to know and we DM'd a little 
bit but Matthew if you're out there follow up with I know you said you wanted to talk. Um because 
that's that's insane. That's true. That's like that's fascinating. Yeah. And implying that like 
what else was did he say? He said a lot in that interview, too. Said a lot. Said a lot. And he 
said that there is a god, but that we're in kind of like this prison planet and that these, you 
know, beings are, you know, we're kind of like captured by some of these beings. Well, we're 
like an energy source or something like that. Talking about that. Yeah, we're a resource. 
That's what it said. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. That's kind of dark. I don't I don't I don't know. 
I don't know if I want to believe that that's it, you know? Hopefully, there's some more meaningful 
[ __ ] going on. I hope so, too, man. We're not just getting mind. I wouldn't be surprised, 
though. But they'll stop eventually. They're like, "Hey, you know what's funny, though? I keep 
thinking about this [ __ ] like aside from um the Barney Hill." Yeah. Any other black abductees 
out there? M well is it like that is the OG that is you talked about this last time that is the OG 
you know abduction so but that's a great question I mean aerial school right aerial school for sure 
then there's that little girl who says she says um in space there's no love and we have love 
and so that's why the being wanted to come down and interact or whatever I think that in space 
there's no love and down here there is. There is love. Yes. Mhm. So, but yeah, like they're not 
But you think the ratio is a little off? They're not taking no black people at nighttime coming in 
your crib and like taking that just it's for some reason you think it's a it's a lower percentage 
than the percentage of the population or I mean maybe it's just not reported or something but 
I don't I don't know this. I find that really fascinating. If you if you if you could find some 
like a book of black abductees or whatever, I want that book. Let's audience, let's get the stats 
on that. Yeah. Yeah. It's a it's a it's a funny thing that Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, the first 
one I mean, I don't know if they were the first, but the first very documented, you know, but that 
is interesting. I don't know. Well, Flyo, this was an honor. That's it. No. How long? I think three 
hours. That was three hours. This was amazing, man. I'm uh anything else that we're missing here 
or what? I'm trying to think. We might have got it, man. We might have got it. But keep fighting 
the good fight, man. Thank you, bro. I I will. And you, too. And I'll do my best. Yeah. But play some 
more than beats, though. Y'all don't know that that's his beat in the intro to the show. Like, 
yeah, I found I figured that one out. Oh, man. Most of my beats. Put some more beats on, dog. I 
can't I can't be talking to you about beats. I'll tell you to do it. I tell you, keep going. Okay. 
Okay. Keep going. I need to I need to. But uh it's therapy, you know. But then I hear your beats 
and other people who I like admire and I'm like, I can't make beats. It's supposed to be fun 
first. Okay. It's fun first, man. Like have fun, you know, and just explore, you know? If something 
happens, great. But like just have fun with it. That's the thing I have to remind myself too. You 
know, like there's so much pressure when I sit in the chair to do anything now. Um that I have to 
remind myself that like no one has to hear or see or anything like I can just have fun doing this. 
Isn't that interesting about art where you start and there's no self-consciousness and then you 
become this thing for other Flying Lotus. You're like a concept for like other people but you're 
like still in your head you're like I'm just this dude. But maybe sometimes when you sit down, 
you're like, "Ah, I got to like adhere to this level of quality that I've done." Absolutely. 
And you just It's a daunting thing to just have a catalog and a lineage and a history and all 
this stuff, but at the end of the day, I know that people can hear when I'm having a good time. 
I know it. That's beautiful. I y'all can hear it. Yeah. You know, you can hear when I'm inspired 
and when I'm having a good time. It's like it's obvious, I think. M do you sometimes look back 
at your life and you're like damn like this is stranger than fiction. Like h like it's a movie. 
The amount of people you've intersected with and your own insane career and then how much you've 
been able to do in cinema and you've done I mean deeper cut people know Captain Murphy that you 
rap too and hip-hop production like everything. Dear man, I I I do and I'm I feel like I just 
feel very grateful, man. I feel very grateful every day. I as written on my refrigerator, 
be grateful because I am. It's just I have the best job in the world and I have so much love and 
support for all my endeavors, you know. Of course, some people don't like what I do. Some people 
like this, some people don't like that. Oh, Cosmic Grand was the only good thing he did. It's 
fine, you know. But like I'm I'm having a great time when I'm creating stuff and I'm I always try 
to hold on to that part that the the the innocent part of of that because it's it's they want to 
take it from you. You know, as soon as you start putting stuff out, they want to take that and you 
know, your management, you got managers and people in your pocket and your families and people want 
need money and you got to like support, you know, and the legal aspects of music and the ownership 
and the Yeah. instead of just all that stuff. But it's creative. Yeah. And it's all all gets in the 
way of of the fun and all gets it gets too heavy. So yeah, trying trying to hold on to that, man, is 
is a thing. And like kind of trying to always stay inspired, always chasing whatever that will keep 
me happy and inspired. It's a thing. I love it. Well, I don't know if I'm going to start making 
beats again, but maybe I'll send you some samples because that it's funny. I have a little bit 
of an encyclopedia mind with the UFO stuff and then it's and then it's samples. I know. It's 
crazy. I was so shocked when you started like, you know, dropping dropping tunes on me. I was 
like, "Dude, you know your thing, man." I mean, I love it. I love it. I don't know. Well, it's uh 
it's more impressive to make this stuff than just You got to send me some playlists, man. You got 
to send me I'll send I'll send you some stuff. I'm sure you've heard everything that I'm sure you're 
deeper on all this stuff. I may I may know a thing or two, but it's still nice to hear where your 
ears at, too. But I'll send you some old soul. Like, I'll send you some samples. Come on, dog. I 
will. Let's get it. You promised me those samples when we first started talking. I feel like 
that was early this year and I still ain't got nothing. Okay. Okay. I'm going to send you some 
I will send I know you're a busy man. You know, you got you got a lot going on. So, I I give you 
pass, but I'm I'm I'm waiting. Okay. I will send you samples and you can do so much more with 
these samples than me. So, I really need to send you get sued. That's what I'm going to 
get. That's You can't really sample anymore, huh? It's just you got to just interpolate or 
whatever. It's a rap. Especially, you know, where I'm at, you know, people like ready to flag 
cuz you're so big and all right. Whatever you want to say about it, they know I'm looking. Yeah. 
So, like it's it's not fun, you know? So like that's why I end up doing a lot more keyboard 
stuff and less sampling just because it's like why did that h cuz like back in the day they would 
clear sample like you think about like they would yeah no they wouldn't well I'm just thinking about 
like uh Juicy Fruit and Touay or whatever or like I don't know upside down from Diana Ross into you 
know it's like you're taking the whole song like that's not even sampling is generous or whatever 
you are literally taking a loop from the song and or whatever I look at why aren't they getting 
why isn't there some big legal thing with that maybe some of the samples were cleared they were 
clear but a lot of times it's not necessarily the artist who will sue you it's their kids you know 
like that the grand grandkids coming after you know like cuz they're in charge of the estate and 
they be listening right like that Robin thick for blurred lines. Marvin Gay over the baseline 
or whatever. Yeah, that was bad luck though. That was bad luck. You think that was just 
like really like too much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You should have saw something interesting. You 
should have saw someone looking over You should be looking over your shoulder doing that kind of 
thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was that was an obvious base. Yeah. That was kind of maybe a 
little ripoff. Well, it's hard to I don't know. Well, I'm usually pro the person taking the stuff 
and it's like you're doing something new with it, you know. I am too, but again, you can't speak 
for the estate. And yeah, being a person who's, you know, my grandma, she wrote Love 
Hangover and people sampling her music is how we ate for years. Yeah, totally. I love 
that song, by the way. There's a cure for this. But, you know, people sampling that was like, 
you know, Bone Thug sample it, right? Um, Will Smith sampled it. Like, so many people 
had sampled her stuff. And yeah, man. Like, we we probably would have been out on the streets if 
it wasn't for, you know, people clearing those s. Yeah, that was that's how we we ate. So, I I 
totally see I know the game. I get it. I get it. People got to eat. So, Uh, yeah, that makes sense. 
And she deserves all the credit for that. I mean, what about Didn't she do stuff for Lamont Doer 
back in the day, too? I believe so. I don't know though, actually. I think so. I don't know what 
under a different under a different uh there was a group or something cuz he was Lamont Doer was 
in one of those groups. I'm blanking on which one, but he also had a solo career and he he was a 
great solo artist, but I thought she might have written something for him. But put me on, dude. 
Tell me that'd be awesome. Uh I mean look, people have been telling me stuff like that though. 
Um like she was she had done some stuff in her Mottown era that I hadn't heard. You know, when my 
grandma was around, she was like more so writing trying to write new songs and trying to, you know, 
write jingles and stuff. So she wasn't really focused on the back catalog as much. It was just 
like when those samples and things would come up, it would just be like, "Oh, and like even the Free 
to Pain, I get high." I didn't even know she did that until the Styles P Styles P I Get I didn't 
even know she did a song about getting high, dude. I was like, "What? Grandma." That's so 
funny. I had no idea. That's a beautiful song. The original is amazing. It's like ethereal and 
opulent and like has some really amazing sound in there. I feel like writers back in the day in 
that Mottown era were the most underappreciated. Like you think about I think about the Mottown 
roster obviously like greatest of all time maybe record label maybe ever. And but like really 
the lynch pin I feel like is Smoky Robinson who is writing all this stuff for everybody else. 
I'm like damn like how did you write that? It's wild man. And like some of the just some of the 
session musicians, you know, who they would call back in and all that stuff, they' be like that 
would be part of the sound that part of like the the foundation for all all this great music. 
And then they would sometimes get sick of writing and they'd be like we want the we want to be up in 
front up up up front like um Mike Thundercat. Mike Thundercat. There you go. That's a great example. 
Well, I remember like you know like McFatten and Whitehead like ain't no stopping us now. Like they 
were writers before you know a lot of it. Yeah. Yeah. My my grandma was doing she had her own 
music at the time too and you know I don't think much happened with her own stuff her own personal 
music but yeah there was I think a lot of those writers were musicians and wanted to have a career 
singing and you know maybe didn't pop off but they could write. So, but it's a it's a thing I I 
would see still. Um, she wrote for Junior Walker, too. That just came. Yeah. I love Junior. It's 
awesome. But yeah, man. Like even in in modern days, you see it. There's just there's people 
was like, see, she was like a songwriter, but she was like kind of like a background character, 
didn't want. And then, yeah, eventually just like, you know what? I'm doing my thing. Not going to 
show my face, though. Yeah. Never. Never. World. That's She won. That's the move, right? Yeah. 
You're that big. Yeah. And he can just hide. Incredible. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe she was inspired by 
MFD. I was just thinking about that, dude. Like, man, dude, he really did figure it out, didn't he? 
He figured it out. Yeah, man. I was funny cuz I I only just made the connection to the gladiator 
mask. Oh, dude, it looks the same. I did. I just did what you said. I did the connection. I was 
like, what is that? No. Yeah, that's wild. So, he must have been basing it off of Gladiator. Is 
Gladiator I feel like that I don't know where the mask comes from, but that is like the same mask. 
It's the same mask. Yeah, cuz you have it going it goes below the chin. Yeah. Whoa. That's trippy. 
Yeah, man. He his stuff is so like the metal fingers beats and stuff, too. It was funny, man, 
when I first got into that. So, like these are some of the worst beats I've ever heard. They're 
just like raw as hell. And then eventually they're like come the best beats you've ever heard, you 
know? Yeah. But I Well, he would just take Well, they were all named after Roots, you know, and 
then he would just take like a Doobie Brothers loop and just throw it on there. Throw the worst 
snares on. Yeah. And then eventually like, "Okay, I get it." It just kind of work. Yeah. Absolutely. 
Like, okay. Yeah. Yeah. I love it, man. Well, round two. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. We'll 
actually finish this. We're actually wrapping up. I could talk to you for hours, man. Fly low. This 
was an honor. True honor. And uh hopefully we come back when you are making your movie, your crazy 
movie about I would love to. I would love to. And um thank you for having me. Honestly, it's so cool 
to be on the other side of this, man. Oh, man. I appreciate it. And I I owe you some sampling. I'm 
now publicly being held account accountable for this. Yeah. Yeah. I need to follow up. It's time. 
It's time. I might not put it out, but if you did, that would be uh a life moment for me on the order 
of like probably more important than anything I've done. You know, when you do a thing in the domain 
you you kind of know you're okay at or whatever, and you're like, "All right, fine. This would be 
so much cooler for me that now it's got to happen. So, send me some [ __ ] Let's get it going. 
I'm going to send you some [ __ ] That would be crazy. That would be appreciate you. Thank 
you, man. Thank you. You know, that just got me thinking like, you know, walking Phoenix provided 
push a tea with a beat. No way. Do you know about this? No. I think like that King Push song like 
Yeah. I don't know if he gave it to him and it was produced by somebody, but he Yeah, it came from 
Phoenix. We Phoenix gave the beat to Yay. So, when I got the beat from Yay, it was, "Yo, why gave 
me this beat?" That's interesting. Really weird. I've been hearing about some low-key producers. 
Robert Patson be making beats. No way. Yeah, dude. Is it good? I don't know. I've been trying 
to get them. I've been trying to get the beat. So, just for my curiosity, I got to know. Oh, wow. 
Got to know. Oh, that's so cool. Yeah. I just I don't know how to do drum. I'm I'm so good at the 
sample selection and then I just always sucked at drums and I can't Do you program them in? Yeah, 
just MIDI. Yeah, that's why. Oh, you got to play them some. It's But I don't think I can play 
them. I just I don't know. You can really don't knock it yet. Just try. Just try. The click in the 
beats thing is difficult. It's difficult to get a vibe from that. It's it's really difficult. And 
I actually do that sometimes. knowing what it's going to sound like. Like sometimes I want stuff 
that sounds rigid on purpose. Yes. But like it's only only then because like I just cannot and a 
lot of people do that. A lot of people just click them in and all I just cannot do it. Yeah. Yeah. 
If I want that feel. Yeah. But like you got it. You just got to But even I remember like there's a 
Kanye interview where he's like I can He says he I mean he's amazing but he was like I could never 
figure out drums. He was like my drums didn't slap like Dilla. He was like, "My drums were not 
like Travis Scott." Like, yeah, but his drums, he did his thing with he does his thing with what 
he's got, you know? And I think I think, you know, Doom did his thing. But when you listen to early 
Kanye, like his first track ever for Rockefeller, I think, was Beanie Seagull and Jay, this can't 
be life on one of Beanie Seagull's random mixtapz. And you hear the drums and you're like, "These 
are garbage." Like these are not good drums. Yeah. And then half the drums are like impeach the 
president, you know, [ __ ] generic ass [ __ ] But you just got to try sound for sound. Don't do like 
the whole kit. Don't be trying to play the whole kit. Just do like just do some high hats first. 
Play those in. Play the high hats in. You know, you can even quantize them later, but just 
put the high hats in and then, you know, do the snare, do the kick. Okay. But another 
thing for you in that case. Yeah. Cuz now you you put me on. Yeah. Is do your drums first and 
then try to form your sampling around the drums versus using the sample. Trust me. Okay. Yeah. 
It's like I have trouble with that sometimes like find cuz finding the right pairing can 
be really can be really challenging. Yeah. But like if you set the drums first and you get 
a good groove with them drums, then something else can happen. Then maybe you might think 
I feel like you're more optimistic than me, but I will try. Oh, man. You can do it. You can do 
it. You just got to have the time. Appreciate you, man. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Yeah. All 
right. We're actually done. Actually done. Quick heads up for you guys. American Alchemy 
merch just dropped. It's all super high quality, 100% cotton, embroidered hats, clean designs. 
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