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finally when they start these medications they're able to implement the very changes you're suggesting would that not be a good thing >> they can do it without the drug >> but if they haven't been able to let's say they've tried for 10 years >> I'm 100% confident people can lose weight without the drug [music] >> using ompic for weight loss is vanity not medicine can the grier step forward >> I have and obese. Um, when I was a kid, my nickname was Fatso. Um, I was the only third grader that was 100 lb at at that time in the 70s. And I've spent my entire life recovering from compulsive eating disorder. So, um, my mom was morbidly obese. Penelpy never got to know her grandmother because uh, she died at age 59, right when Penelopey was born. and on her death certificate was morbid obesity. And then just a few years ago, my own daughter Penelopey was 320 pounds at age 15. And I thought I'd done everything to dodge that bullet. And in fact, I was so uh vulnerable to the media like these young girls are today. And I fell for the body positivity trap, the opposite trap actually. And I thought that being obese was beautiful at that time when I was 15. I thought being morbidly obese was beautiful and healthy because social media told me it was. When I finally realized that being obese wasn't healthy and that it wasn't beautiful. I tried hCG injections. I tried green tea pills. I tried many diets and it didn't work for me and none of it worked for me. You know, something else did work for me, but it wasn't Ompic. It was whole foods and diet and exercise and lifestyle and um that's that's what saved my life. not ompic, not a not a drug. >> The first time this idea of vanity and ompic use came on my radar was by the European Pharmaceutical Commission, Emily, I think her last name is Field. And when I was trying to understand, well, does the country that manufactures these drugs, Denmark, is it legal? Like there, I mean, yes, okay, it's legal, but do does their national health care system fund it? And Emily Field said that she felt it was a vanity drug because there was a lack of long-term data that showed it was improving diseases like heart disease and diabetes and cancer long term. And it caused me to consider the idea that if it's not helpful long term and countries like Canada, Denmark, and Germany are not paying for it with their national healthare systems, perhaps it is. Can they disagree a step forward? Yeah. So, I'm a nutritionist and for 23 years I've worked with over 5,000 clients worldwide. I've been one of the first early adapters of approving GLP-1 for uh health desired outcomes, whether it's weight loss, whether it's reduction of non-fatty liver disease, whether it's uh cardiac protection, whether it's insulin resistance. Um I think we can say that there can be vanity associated with GLP-1 use. There are people and we can all agree that there's people that shouldn't be taking GLP1 that is. And there are influencers that promote this body outcome, this this body negativity associated with we have to be super skinny and things like that. And I would add to that in that we've gone through every diet craze out there, keto, carnivore, vegan, plant-based, whatever. None of it has led to a reduction in obesity in this country. We see for the first time over the last couple years, there's actually a decline in obesity prevalence in the United States. And that is driven largely by areas where there's greater GLP-1 use. So that supports the idea that these medications are really helping and they're finally a potential solution. At the same time, based on the latest meta analysis of over 100,000 people, 21 randomized controlled trials, 12% lower risk of dying during the first three and a half years of using these medications, 13% lower risk of dying due to cardiovascular disease, lower risk of kidney failure, infections. If that's not medicine, I don't know what is. >> I think we can all agree that uh weight loss is a problem. Weight is a problem. Obesity is a problem. So this is this is a problem that we have to solve for. And yeah, so I, you know, I I work with people who are trying to get off the drug. I work with a panic of people who um need to get off it for [clears throat] financial reasons, right? >> Or because they're having these adverse side effects. They're concerned about their blurred vision or their memory loss. >> And so, you know, I would like to learn more about it because like, you know, we have had them 15 years, but for obesity specifically, we don't really understand. >> Yeah. And and just as you we use medical nutrition therapy, right? Because we're identifying those who have co-orbidities. They have different health concerns, right? And we're all talking about GLP-1 that's prescribed from a doctor or a physician's assistant or a nurse practitioner. We're not talking about off label use. At least I'm not I'm not condoning off label buying it in China or whatever. Right? So with medical nutrition therapy, you know, we go ahead and in in u implement diet and exercise interventions with GLP-1 therapy. Right? Now, we do know according to studies that upon g quitting GLP1, we're looking around a 60 to 70% weight regain, which is obviously terrible. However, trials on lifestyle intervention weight loss, which is somewhere between 5 and 10% of total body weight on average. The average American diets four to five times a year typically fails. We see that same group who only lose 5 to 10% regain 50% of their weight over two years and typically 80% of their weight over three years. So yes, we are at a risk to a higher degree of weight regain a shorter time frame, but when we're talking about the difference between five and 10% of weight loss versus 15 and 20 with GOP1 interventions, we're still talking about a higher degree of weight loss long term. Now, that's where I come in and and you know, we're we're making sure they're eating enough protein. They're making sure they're eating enough and not doing starvation-based dieting. We're making sure we're incorporating exercise. So, the things that people are worried about with GLP-1 therapies, kind of like you are, which I agree, I'm I'm terrified of people starving themselves and not, you know, really learning the lifestyle associated with it, by implementing those tips early on in their GLP-1 journey, they're going to be more successful. They're going to have body positivity. They're going to lose weight the right way. They're going to learn how to treat their body and eat the right things. And that's the type of intervention that I do for my clients that are on GLP1. >> How did you lose the weight? >> Whole foods, exercise. How long did it take? >> About 2 years. >> Two years. So, so you've got this uh journey of a teenage brain that's uh suffering under the obesity, under a high insulin state, uh muting the development of a 16-year-old brain. We'll say that a majority of that brain is developed by that age. And you developed that in a setting of over a 100 extra pounds at least of of fat mass. when you when you look to lose that the next two years I mean looking at you know one of the key things for these and I've never prescribed it in a teenager but I look at a family history where death hits at 60 mom suffered and daughter uh despite good parenting has a mass that is you know has to be one of the top obesity profiles and you say how much of your life did you sacrifice in those 16 17 years old what that it took to lose that weight. >> But what's interesting about my story is that I was really brainwashed by body positivity. >> So I was really being brainwashed. People were telling me, "Penelopey, you're beautiful." Doctors and therapists said, "Penelopey, you're beautiful. You're healthy. Being morbidly obese is totally fine. Go eat some candy." So I was addicted to ultrarocessed foods and sugar. I was hiding pizza from my mom in my in my in the in my underneath my bed in my closet. I mean, I was stuffing my face behind her back. I was not eating all day and then I was shoving food in my mouth in the closet. I mean I was so addiction. Absolutely. >> I was addicted. I was >> but you can cure binge eating without needing ompic and I and I have I'm proof of that but I also help people do that. >> I have mixed opinions on that because true. So binge eating is an addiction disorder, right? It plays on the mind. It's not that much dissimilar to opioid use or alcoholism and things like that. I do think that uh therapy is obviously great. We have vivans. we have GLP1 all kinds of addiction u binge eating medicines that we have now available now for a lot of people it might be something that you could fix internally but when we look at from a uh from from looking at totalitaria of people who do struggle with binge eating normally some sort of intervention has to be made whether it's through medicine or through you know psychotherapy or whatever it is to get it to answer your question earlier I make my clients track so I see all their food logs I see all their workout logs I'm checking in with them daily I'm having tele health appointments every two weeks with them. So, I micromanage the heck out of my clients, whether they're on GOP1 or not, because I want to be the support system they need to be finally successful with this this struggle that many of us and many of the viewers have struggled with all their lives. >> I wanted to touch like going back to the original question about it being about vanity because I heard your story and it definitely resonates and that's a lot of young girls stories. Um, I'm a health coach and personal trainer so I'm really big on the lifestyle part of it. Most of my clients know they're going to be working for at least six months to a year, especially if they have a weight loss goal. There is no three months. I'm like, this is going to be a lifestyle change. But when I hear it's only because of vanity, the first thing I think of is all of the women that just simply don't have the education. Because the majority of women that come to me telling me the things that they've tried and this hasn't worked, knowing what I know, having a weight loss journey myself, and having trained not as many as you, but been doing this for the last almost 10 years, it's the same thing. they just don't know what it takes to lose the weight. So, even as someone that is not really big on meds as a first response, I believe that they do have a place and that not everybody is doing it for vanity. Are there people? Yes, we know that like that that's going to happen. But a lot of these people really don't know what it takes to lose weight and keep it off and that's why they think they've done everything. I have a binge eating disorder. So, I personally have taken Osmpic and I've been on it for over a year and a half. I've had no problems. If anything, it's helped me. It's made me more active. It's helped me mentally even now. I mean, still I'm like, "Oh my god, am I big again?" Like, I have a fear of getting big again without Ozmpic. I've been off of it a couple times, but yeah. I mean, it's not really for vanity. I think it's also for just everyday life as well, confidence, mentally, all of it. >> Drug companies are exploiting body insecurities to boost profits. Can the agreeer step forward? Okay, I guess I'm I'm the sole person on this side, so why not start? Um, I would say that they are to a degree because for them it is largely profit driven, right? It's not necessarily out of altruism. Uh, if it was, the drug costs wouldn't be what they are here in the States. So, I'm from Canada. You pay a fraction, a tiny fraction of what you would pay for the same drugs here. >> There's a saying that's like, if you want to make money in fitness, lie to women. If you want to make a lot of money in fitness, lie to women about and then insert whatever the issue is, menopause or per menopause, and all you have to do is have what people are desiring hit their pain points. And you hit them over and over again with ads from everywhere. And it's it's it's undeniable. We live in a capitalistic society. Why would they not be exploiting our pains to make more profit? >> I mean, there's absolute evidence that obesity causes brains to change, hearts to change, and increase in an endocrine dysfunction. using these medications in a way that I mean this is a powerful tool. It is a super powerful tool that uh the weight loss uh even you know a natural weight loss there was a percentage of that that was fat loss a percentage of that that's bone loss and and muscle loss you add these medications to it in a young patient like that and getting her to restore that muscle mass or bone mass after it's been lost is I mean it's criminal. It's criminal how many of these uh young women losing 15 20 pounds on a really intense drug did it because of something that I as their physician I'm going to have a heck of a time restoring that bone density in a 24 year old that now has uh osteoporosis. >> Well, I I would actually disagree with that a little bit because um I've looked at some of the data on these medications and bone mineral density and if anything there's actually increases in bone mineral density in certain areas >> the young women because of the itself. >> Yes. and and only a decrease in certain weightbearing areas because they're carrying less weight at that point. That is normal. Actually, people with obesity have greater bone mineral density. >> I'm talking about these lost 15 pounds, >> right? And and we've already agreed on that. I don't think >> that's the part where the bone loss is shocking like >> Ashley 30 osteoporosis. She she was so scared. And I think about her story and I think about the thousands of young women who take these drugs because they see these ads online and think, "Okay, well, I I think I need to lose 5 10 lbs." They take they take the ozic and they take the off the label ompic. They take whatever they can find and end up with osteoporosis or dead. >> But we don't really hear about it that much cuz if it's off the label, they maybe don't have to talk about it. You know, we don't >> hear about it. My partner works in medical malpractice, wrongful death. And the amount of cases where women that look like me have that in their system is the number one reason why if a client is like, "Hey, I'm thinking of taking this. It's not my job. I'm not a physician." But I was like, "Let's obviously what does your doctor say?" And then also, if you're working with me, then we're going to make sure that your training matches this because of everything that you just said. You can't build muscle without enough food. We know that you also can't recover from working out without enough food. And if this drug is going to suppress your appetite, it kind of works against what we were trying to do. >> Serena Williams is a great example of this. you know, her husband was on the board of >> Row >> and Oh, don't get me started. That joke got me so mad. >> And I as a young girl looked up to Serena Williams as a strong woman who was not morbidly obese and she promoted came out and promoted this drug. To me, it was out of left field and [gasps] I was so sad because I was like, I know there are hundreds and thousands of girls who are looking up to this woman who are going to be like, yes, I need >> if she can't do it, then how can I? That's thing I thought. I was like, if this woman who's an Olympic medalist, who has the best nutritionist, the best trainers, has access to all this stuff, like you see that and you're like, if she has access to all of this and this is what I'm living off of, well then I can't possibly do this on my own. It's like again, lack of education. It's not even vanity at that point. >> There's a loophole as well for tele medicine where they don't have to disclose the side effects like television ads. Guess how much Eli Liova Nortis, the manufacturers of these semiglutide drugs, spent in 2024 on television advertising. >> I can only imagine. >> Over $400 million. >> That's a big number. So I'm so grateful for conversations like this so that we can actually have a balanced debate and discussion on you know what's happening what's potent the potential uh benefits and risks of this these drugs. It is it is a a massive machine. What drives obesity? There are a number of factors for for example people based on genetics have different hunger signals. Some have super strong, some weaker. Some have what's called food noise where they see an advertisement or they smell something and it just it consumes their mind. It's all they can think about. Some people eat a plate of food and feel full while others have to consume a massive plate or four or five plates in order to feel full. Have you looked at any of the twin studies actually assessing how much of this is genetic? Do you have an idea? >> It's about 40 to 70% of the weight differences across the population can be attributed to genetics. It's a massive proportion. So yes, we can talk about resources that someone like Serena Williams has, but we have no idea about all of these other drivers for her. We or anybody for that matter. I don't want to speculate on an individual's health status or what they're dealing with in their life cuz I have no idea. But if you try over and over and over again and you're not getting results, well, finally we have something that can actually help them achieve those goals. >> But I don't think that's how Go ahead. I don't think this that's what the exploitation of the finding. I mean that patient obviously you're going to use that the inclusion criteria for those studies were they're obese, they got heart disease, they're diabetic. That person I'm not worried about the the insurance or the exploitation by big pharma. I am worried about reproductive females that are, you know, overweight, not even qualifying as obese, and this is their cash paying drug to look, you know, to look great without the warnings that should be there with this very powerful drug. >> Well, I think we agree like we've already agreed that that we aren't in favor of using it for just vanity purposes, right? That there should be certain criteria that people meet in order to >> that drug pumpkin could put rules in saying, "Look, they're not heavy enough. We're not going to let you have that." There are there are there are certain criteria they have to meet. We're talking about like off label ordering from some other country or something uses, but I'm not agreeing with that. >> My experience has shown me that there aren't actually the same criteria and I think that's why the studies show that only 30% of the people on the drug are actually making lifestyle changes and >> well then they should be advocated like there that that's on their physician or on their dietitian. Insurance companies could also put in real, you know, safeguards to say, you know, you have to show proof that you are working with a nutritionist and pay for it, working with a lifestyle coach and paying for >> I think I would agree with that. >> But like when I was on Accutane, not not I'm not proud to to say that, but I was. And I remember I had to get pregnancy tests and blood work every few weeks or I wasn't getting my prescription refilled period. >> And that was a guardrail because they knew the fertility studies were so concerning. And the fertility studies are very concerning. the American College of Obstition Gynecologists. Yes. They say you should stop taking them 6 to 8 weeks before conception because of miscarriages, bone deformation, organ shrinking. Um you know, we we're potentially looking at a population not aging well, weak, frail. I mean, that that that is the potential if we don't put some kind of restraint on the prescriptions of these drugs. >> But what about the risk of obesity? >> They're they're concerning, >> right? They're extremely concerning. And so again, we can go back to the data on health outcomes with these medications. Lower heart disease, lower diabetes, lower kidney failure, lower liver disease. Um these are just benefits across the board. Yes, there are some gastrointestinal side effects. Absolutely. People should be informed about them. With reproduction, I haven't seen evidence of that. With frailty, I haven't seen um evidence that it causes frailty. Yes, there's about a 20% muscle loss or about a 40% lean mass loss, but that's the same thing that happens if you just restrict calories and lose weight. It's the same proportion. That can be >> true as they're older. Well, well, that that is true unless you're implementing resist resistance training and increasing protein intake, which I am 100% for. Let's advocate for incorporate. >> I just think that's not screened well. If you're these drugs are you're going to you're going to lose this. You take a 75-year-old who says, "Let me lose that 60 lbs. It's going to help her heart disease. It's going to help her cardiovascular." What she now has is if she uses it with a drug, and I contend there are things I would do absolutely 100% never break this rule before that drug goes in that 70 75year-old. And when losing that weight without those rules, that bone, I'll never get that muscle mass and bone bass back in that woman. >> Right. So maybe we can find a middle ground. If it was the case that it was mandated in some way to at least inform people Yeah. inform people of these particular concerns, would you be in favor of of making them available to those people? >> Yeah. I mean, I I I contend without without full stop. I would never prescribe OMPic in a 75-year-old woman without having her show me a couple of steps that she has to do before that drug goes in. >> I I think that's reasonable. >> Good job. >> Um, after listening throughout the whole thing, I actually probably should have been up here with you guys. Um, and I can honestly say I'm probably guilty of this. I am a content creator. I've lost 95 lbs in the last 2 years by taking medications. Um, for me, when I first started my journey, it was 100% for weight loss. I was just really unhappy where I was. I was, I think, 27 at the time. I was almost 250 lbs. Um, I gained a lot of weight from COVID. Didn't know at the time that I had PCOS, but that had a lot to do with it. And then, um, I had to get blood work done in order to even get on the medication. That's when I found out I had PCOS, sub dermatitis, pre-diabetic, high cholesterol, just all the things. So, it was, yeah, I want to do this cuz I want to lose weight, but then you actually do need this uh medication for other things. And I will be honest, I do think I have contributed to the before and after images because I do share my journey and it has truly changed my life and I don't think it's a negative thing that I share that. But I do think it does contribute to people wanting to get on the medication for that thing. And I also don't necessarily think that is a bad thing. Um, >> but are you honest about it online? >> Oh, absolutely. My whole all my content is GOP1, PCOS, GOP1, uh, anti-inflammatory things like that. >> Is it sponsorships or is it true? Um, in what regards like do I work with brands and things like that? >> You like to promote it or I do. Okay. >> Yeah. So, I started out on name brand Mjaro. >> No, I don't think it's a problem either. >> Oh, yeah. I'm very clear about >> I like the people that they will alter stuff and make it look like someone lost way more weight in a short amount of time that does stuff to people's brain cuz they're like, I've been doing this and I don't look like that. >> Yeah. >> But she's But yours natural like that's >> Yeah. Pretty much very much a walking advertisement. >> Me, too. >> Yeah. And it's just I mean I I don't think it's a negative thing to share, but I I can definitely see how it can affect people and it can become more of a 100% vanity thing, which in a way I also don't think that's negative. I mean I feel like if you want to be happy with how you look, who am I to tell you whether you should do that by >> getting on an anti-inflammatory diet, keto, a GLP1, like I don't think there's anything wrong with that. So yeah, >> I would actually blame prescribers instead of looking at the pharmaceutical companies actually exploiting to the people. We have diagnosible standards that medical professionals have to diagnose and treat obesity related conditions or type 2 diabetes or sleep apnea or heart disease. All of these things have been approved. We know if you have a BMI over 30 and you don't have co-orbidities, you should not be approved for uh for obesity management. Right? If you have a 27 BMI with some co-orbidities, you could be approved. Right? If you're going to take it for diabetes use, you have to be diabetic. For instance, if you want to take it for sleep apnnea, which has been recently uh approved, then you have to have sleep apnnea or if you have heart disease or things like that. So if doctors are going against the FDA standards when it comes to prescribing these medicines, and I know there are doctors out there that just don't care and they just write scripts, but from a totality look at it, I think that the vast majority of doctors and providers are actually screening them accordingly with, you know, hey, do you actually meet the requirement of enough BMI to be prescribed this or do you have type 2 diabetes that's uncontrolled and you've tried exercise and diet interventions or sleep apnnea or heart disease or whatever many of the facts that you said earlier about, you know, people, you know, dying less with using the GLP1. So, if a doctor is exploiting their patient by pushing meds that may not be needed, then obviously I'm against that. But we have pretty well pretty good standards in the US where there are diagnosible standards when it comes to GLP-1. Now, if a doctor exploits that just because for off label purpose, that's on them. I don't necessarily blame the pharmaceutical companies as much as I would blame providers for prescribing something that doesn't meet the requirements needed to actually take this medicine, >> but the the pharmaceutical companies are the ones that are paying for the marketing that's going out. So that that was the topic is like are they the ones >> but it's still the doctors that are the gatekeepers but before it gets there because they saw the ad that was exploiting like that was the topic. >> We're talking about weak doctors. We're not talking about >> I thought they said >> it is, but I'm saying that it's not the the pharmaceutical companies that are taking advantage of people. If a doctor doesn't stand their ground and they prescribe for something that doesn't meet the standard anyone wants this drug, they can get it, right? >> Anywhere they get anywhere. So, I'm against that. So, if you don't meet the diagnosible standards of GLP1, you should not be on GLP-1. And I think we can all agree this. You should not just take it for vanity. So if a doctor's the gatekeeper and they're writing prescriptions based off of an advertisement that so and so saw that's doctor that's malpractice on the doctor that is not the pharmaceutical [laughter] >> company I still think it's wrong but I see what you did there like and not in a bad way I just I so the first time I wrote one of these drugs is 2013 [clears throat] like the first one that came out uh in diabetics uh and you can say oh it's going to lose weight it did not work the next one comes out thank you yes and that one a little bit better but not too much like Victose I think is the name of that one. Okay. So, and that doctor is writing it off label. I was that doctor saying, "Oh, are you telling me there is a tool out there? This fighting of when that weight loss starts and the the the snowball of how many reasons you're going to now see me over the next 10 years and the quality of life, the extension of life, not not not being part of this. Just look at the quality. If you're only going to get to live to that 59 years old, let me have that quality be part of that." And I think it's the responsibility of that physician to do that. I don't think, you know, when I look at people who write stuff off label, I think it is our job to know how that drug works and where it works. And they did not have a a hit until uh I would even say I've never written ompic. I have written um the >> Wobbi. Yeah. Yeah. Well, >> or Zepound or >> No. Zepound. No. Yeah. So, Drosepatide finally hits something where you impact hormones, brain, and cardiovascular. And it is powerful. >> Uh to think that it's never going to be written off off label. I don't I mean I'm going to stand on the side of physicians are trying. I mean in the trenches for 25 years saying [sighs and gasps] you're in trouble. You've got a snowball of endocrine that's hurting you and 250 pounds at such a young age. I'll work, you know, I'll go first. Here's the next few steps you're going to need for the next things. This drug changes her brain and her heart and her life. >> And it's off label. You missed practice last week. Everything okay? Uh, not really. I slipped on a wet [music] floor at work and there was no sign or anything. >> Wait, like fell fell? >> Yeah, I ended up at urgent care and HR has been really [music] weird about it. >> That's definitely something worth looking into. There's a reason injury law firms exist. [music] Just like there's a reason Morgan and Morgan, the sponsor of today's video, is America's largest injury law firm. Morgan and Morgan specializes in a wide range of personal injury cases and have [music] won thousands of big cases. Just recently, Morgan and Morgan has secured verdicts of $12 million in Florida [music] and $26 million in Philly. That's up to 40 times the highest insurance offer. I'm telling [music] you, your case can be worth millions. The best part, it's all free unless you win your case. If you've also been a victim of a personal injury or any other serious accidents, you can visit [music] www.forthepeople.com/jubilee found in the description below to start your free claim today. >> Wow. Okay, I'm going to look into that right [music] after this. Thanks to Morgan and Morgan for sponsoring this portion of this episode. Now, let's get back to the video. [music] Ozic is saving lives by combating the obesity epidemic. Kinder step forward. Oh, go ahead. Squeeze. I definitely agree. I mean, again, being 250 lbs at 27, I definitely was headed downhill for sure. I was very shocked to find out I was pre-diabetic. And the only reason I even went to the doctor in the first place was because I wanted to get on the medication to help me lose weight. And I probably wouldn't have, this sounds so bad, but I probably wouldn't have went and gotten a physical or checkup, anything anytime soon, probably in the next couple of years. And who there's no telling where I would have been at that point. It wouldn't have been a pre-diabetic diagnosis. It would have been you are diabetic now. Let's get you on insulin and doing all this stuff. And um so I I look at this medication definitely as saving my life for sure. >> And I'd agree. I mean I so I got on Zmpic like a year and a half ago, but I was not too morbidly obese. I was about 189, but my BMI obviously was high before I was ever ever able to start Ompic. Obviously I had to get my blood work done, make sure that I was healthy enough to be on it and I had no underlying issues. But I fear that if I kept living my life the way I was, it would have brought things up later in the future without making a change. To which I did work out for nine months straight. My brother's a bodybuilder. My dad's a bodybuilder. Completely natural. >> So, I mean, I tried the work. I worked out 5 days a week for 9 months. I diet. I did my diet. I had chicken and rice, like the most bland food ever. I do have a binge eating disorder, too. But nothing was working for me to the point where I was like >> I went to the doctor and I never had done that before where I reached out and I was like look I'm trying so hard to do this and nothing's working. So I was able to get prescribed ompic but I was put on a sample. So I've only ever stuck on.5. >> Oh okay. >> And I've lost a lot of weight from just.5. So that's why I feel like too yes people abuse it like anything else to where they're going up and you know how high can you go up? Like 3.75 or something? Is it two? >> Prompic. I'm like, okay. Yeah. See, that's really high. If I was on that, I'd probably be dust. [laughter] But some people need it depending on your body. Like I wasn't able to be on anything else but that. Well, from what my doctor said because I take Adderall. I have ADHD. So, a lot of the other drugs, I guess, diet drugs clash with aderall. So, she's like, "I can't prescribe you certain things. So, we need to get you tested, make sure you're healthy enough, or if you can pre-qualify through insurance." But, she was like, "You're not going to be able. your insurance is probably not going to. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> so what's your long-term plan with that? >> I do plan on staying on the medication long term. I do have PCOS and it has really helped with my insulin resistance and that's something I definitely want to keep under control. So, as of right now, I don't have any plans of coming off the medication. So, I'd like to get to a point where I'm in maintenance. So, I've lost like 95 lbs. I'm not necessarily exactly where I want to be, but I'm like happy. Like, I'm very content because from where I came from to now. Um, so I want to get to the point where I can take the shot maybe once a month instead of doing it every week. Um, just pushing it out as long as I can to maintain the weight that I've lost versus gaining it again. And as long as the inflammation for my PCOS doesn't come back and all of those things, that's kind of my long-term goal. >> So, I just got back from Japan. Going on a little personal story for a second here, but I just got back from Japan last week and it's completely different there. You go into a convenience store and you have ready-made meals with vegetables in the fridge. You have, if you were to get a bag of chips, they're like this big. You go into a bakery and the again the slices of cake are like this big. Um and healthy food is cheap there and and you know if you take people from say Japan where the obesity rate based on our criteria is like 5% compared to 40% here and you bring them over to here and look at the migration studies obesity rates skyrocket and it's proportional to how long they live here. >> Right. Right. So, it's crazy and and going back to what I mentioned earlier is we are seeing for the first time after basically year-over-year increases in obesity rates in the US that they've finally declined over the last couple years >> and largely driven by areas where these medications are in the greatest use. Um, and so that really supports the idea that these medications are reducing obesity which is a risk factor for something like seven or eight out of leading 10 killers here. Um, so yeah, I would say it is absolutely saving lives. >> Yeah, it it absolutely is and I think we just got to look at stats. So, you know, in the United States, 70% are overweight or obese. We've had diet culture for the last 60 or 70 years. We've tried Atkins, we've tried keto, we've tried carnivore, we've tried paleo, we've tried starvation-based diets, we've tried 7-day fasts and all those things. And even though we have concentrated on lifestyle interventions for the last 50, 60 years, we're still at a point where we are still gaining weight, right? I live in West Virginia. We're the most obese state. And so, when you're looking at us, we're talking about 78% of West Virginiaians are overweight or obese. So, we're seeing that finally we're able to treat those who have tried the diet culture, tried the lifestyle changes and haven't been successful. Now, are there there people that maybe not working with the right specialists and might have been able to get the weight off appropriately without GOP1? Sure, there are cases like that, but most of these people, they've tried everything. It's not that one day they're like, you know what, I'm going to try. This sounds great, right? These are people that have struggled year over year over year when it comes to it. If you have a BMI of 45, okay, you live the same amount of years as a pack a day smoker. So you're taking 10 years off your life by being a BMI over 45. Okay, we know if we can lower it to 35, which is still in the overweight, obese range, but a much lower, you know, closer to where you need to be, you're going to gain seven years back off of that. >> So when we look at it, the longevity is going to go up because we're reversing obesity and co-obidities associated with obesity. So I think that's going to be the end goal is we want people to live healthier, happier lives. And I think we're going to be in a position with GOP1 therapies to do that. >> When I look at why we've become so fat, sick, and infertile over the last hundred years, you know, we notice it's it's pretty recent that it's happened. And we also look at the statistics of ultrarocessed food like you were mentioning Penelopey. Um, and our children are eating 70% of their diets are ultrarocessed food. And I feel like the the existence of these semiglutides and GLP1 agonist, they're they're they're masking a problem and it's almost like we're giving ourselves a chemical to solve a eating addiction that we've been given by ultrarocessed food and food big food manufacturers. I mean there it's it's it's well known and there's decades of research showing that you know food scientists are putting together uh a concoction a trifecta so to say of fats carbohydrates um sugar I mean sugar fat and salt which puts your brain into addiction and they've studied the brain and it's it's it's like as if you're on cocaine >> and this is something fundamentally that we absolutely I think as a culture need to address we need to take more accountability personal responsibility of of changing our diet and lifestyle. And I think unless and until we can create a model that supports our physicians um and supports, you know, the the community model of of how we're going to change our diet lifestyle um at schools, in families, in communities um equally, not only for certain types of people, um we're not really going to get to the root of this problem. And I think unless and until we get to the root and solve it, we're not really going to see long-term results. >> Like, yes, I agree. Our food system has been revamped over and over to become more hyper palatable and and to drive us to consume more and more. And I think because of that, it's really difficult to put the onus on each individual to address that problem. >> Hold on. You said that it we can't put that on the individual. >> Yeah. >> We can't expect people to be responsible for their lifestyle and their food choices. >> Let me explain. So, if you have, let's say, two different people, okay, one person extremely high hunger drive, extremely uh obnoxious and got a high food drive cuz she didn't eat most of the day. And that's one of the things that I see a lot is women that will come up and they'll tell me they're what I eat in a day or how they eat. And I'm listening to them. I was like, baby girl, you eat like that because you didn't eat breakfast. Well, I don't eat breakfast. I'm like, cuz you drink coffee first thing in the morning and you suppress your appetite. I have coached women who got weight loss surgery and or did oympic lost they were 300 lbs and then they got down to my weight and the issue was that they still saw themselves as a 300 lb woman because that process the same way when you eat your food too quickly and your brain doesn't register that you've just eaten a full meal which is why you overeat because it happened too quickly. When you lose weight too quickly, you don't go through that process of like that that determination, that patience, that resilience that your brain can match the hard work to the outcome. And so when people, again, I'm not knocking it, but I've just seen it from experience. I've worked with women that have went through, a good example is a friend of mine hired me during the pandemic as her health coach and her personal trainer. We'd work out once a week and I did her health coaching calls, but she didn't want to do any of the homework like working on her hunger cues or taking a journal and seeing where your appetite is stronger or like where it's where sorry, where your appetite increases or where it decreases and what you did that day and why that might happen or why you worked out and it felt like crap because you didn't eat the day before. and we fill in those clues, right? She didn't want to do that route. She gave up. She's like, "I wasn't I this isn't what I wanted. I was thinking more like tough, like military style, and I'm like, that's not me." She went and did weight loss surgery. She lost the weight and was good. But then she took Ozmpic and then she sent me a message when she found out I was taking the show and sent me all of the things that she's experienced and it wasn't great stuff. And she's like, I wish I had listened to you in the beginning because she has spent so much money when in the beginning I was trying to take her through this process so that she wouldn't have to go through the hills don't build skills. The point is that we have different people with different responses as far as hunger cues, as far as society cues. And the food environment has been revamped year after year to become more hyper palatable, meaning it drives us to consume more. The cheapest foods are often the least healthy. They're the most accessible. And now you place people in that environment and they're up against it. Now somebody might have an easier time avoiding those cues. I can walk by a McDonald's and not think twice about it, but somebody else might walk by it and just constant >> Exactly. And when people have these issues like, "Oh, I don't understand why." I'm like, "Okay, what was your family life like?" Because I can remember that I didn't like to eat a lot because I can remember my father telling me, "Oh, you're going to get seconds. You're going to get seconds." And then one of you mentioned that you guys had to eat all of your plate. For our generation and up, that's what we all heard. If you got to finish that food, somebody's starving in Africa. And one of the things I have to tell people is like, that's not going to help them. You finishing your plate isn't going to help anybody else. and learning to build a healthy relationship with food because again we can't stop that they're going to keep putting stuff in the food to make you more addictive. telling people I feel like you're setting them up for victimhood when you're like, "Oh, you can't do anything because the food's sweeter, so now you need this." And it's like, "How are we setting them up?" Like, >> human body was designed to heal. >> Hold on. First line treatment across every medical guideline out there. >> Yeah. But look, look at look at the story between these two. Kiana has she needed that drug to start this journey. I I really believe that like she was in a spiral, couldn't start. But the fact that her mentality is I'm going to be on this forever or as much as I can get the samples to stay on it. Without it, I mean I mean that's I see patients like this like that's not a plan. This is the plan where you you have skill sets that need to be acquired and this shackled you. It is not discipline in a shot. I mean it is >> I haven't been on it in like a month or two I want to say. I don't know the exact dates cuz I haven't told my doctors on maternity. And as you pull that as you pull that uh that hormone away. >> Mhm. >> The skill set that you are acquiring is the goal of health. That is you know obesity epidemic isn't just about being fat. It's about what's going on between their ears. >> People who use GLP1 drugs are taking the easy way out. >> People who are taking the GLP1s took the easy way out. Absolutely. >> Mhm. It's okay as long as it's not the only way. The beginning step for p patients suffering from years of obesity. Yeah. Step one, it's the easy way out. Doesn't mean it's the last thing we're going to do. >> You know, you weren't born morbidly obese. You know, I used to think I had that fat gene. You were talking about genetics earlier. I thought I was born fat. >> Well, you do have the fat gene. [laughter] >> No, I know. So do I. >> But guess what? I wasn't born 400 lb. >> No, you were born >> I wasn't even born 200 lb. Can we all agree that babies aren't born 400 lb? Mhm. >> You're born with a predisposition to developing that later in life. >> Yeah. And our family is a symbol of it. Absolutely. >> And it doesn't mean that I need weight loss drugs. And it doesn't mean that anyone needs weight loss drugs to lose weight because people can lose weight naturally. And that's that that's the truth. >> And and it's different than like uh insulin. Insulin I might need if I'm a diabetic because I'm not producing insulin. But this is not giving me something that I don't produce naturally. Can we all agree? We we make GLP-1 naturally. And yeah, but I think in the setting of these two young ladies that they're they were hijacked by an excessive amount of insulin that that GLP1 and GIP didn't insul. Yeah, it got in from processed foods and overeating and when their brain was trapped in the you are stuck. Uh that drug hijacked that moment and rescued them in a moment that absolutely will change how they think. >> I'm not [laughter] an addict. >> Well, yeah. I whether it's drugs, alcohol, I have a very addictive personality. So with food, it's the same thing. It's like I very addictive like to anything. Even if it's like finding a shirt. I'm like on a mission. I have to find the shirt. I don't care. It takes me 3 hours. Like I'm finding the shirt. It's just me or like my boyfriend like very addictive personality. I want to be with him 24/7 because that's just how I am. And it's really hard. It's really hard for me to fix though because it's like in aspects of alcohol I've had a problem. Aspects of food I've had a problem. I've caught those problems. But yes, it's the easy way out for sure. 100%. I should have taken the time to study and do my work more while I was on the drug. I, like I said, went to the gym for nine months straight, five days a week. But that was supposed to be my kickstart to help me like, okay, cool. Still be consistent in the gym, but I took it and I kind of fell down. >> Sometimes our greatest strength is also something that is our nemesis. >> Yeah. No, I just wanted to chime in on like I I agree that it makes it easier. I disagree with framing the easy way out as a negative. And so, >> oh, it's moral. >> Yeah. Like I would just put this forth. We talked about the food system and addiction to foods and whatnot. Would you frame it as the easy way out to use a nicotine patch to quit smoking if you're addicted to it? >> No. I smoke nicotine. I can't drop it. I've been doing it since I was 16. Now, if she were to start using either like the gums or patches, would you frame that as >> Absolutely. Absolutely. I cold turkey sugar and flour and it saved my life. I was highly addicted sugar and flour. I'm talking highly addicted to sugar and flour. >> But for smoking, would you >> for smoking? I I was I had that issue and I didn't need that to I would cold turkey and be fine. And that is the easy way. It is the easy way out. >> You would say it's the you would say in a negative way that it's an easy way out for a smoker to quit smoking using nicarette or nicely. Absolutely. >> Yeah. I think that's a wild position. >> I think that's an absolutely wild position. >> All right, show of hands. Who thinks obesity is a chronic health condition? >> Chronic health condition. >> Okay. Who thinks blood pressure is a chronic health condition? >> Okay. So, is taking blood pressure pills cheating? I think it's rever I think you can do with all medicine eventually. >> Some are genetic though. Some have genetic high blood pressure. >> Yeah, I have genetic high blood pressure. I eat super clean. I do everything right. It's what I do for a living. I do bodybuilding. I do everything. Doesn't matter. I have genetically high blood pressure. I also have genetically high cholesterol. So I take a statin for that. So the point is is to me when we talk about obesity as a chronic uh uh chronic condition that people struggle with. I do not feel is it some sort of easy way out to use modern medicine to help dictate uh potential health outcomes. So whether it's blood pressure, whether it's cholesterol, whether it's GLP1. Now we can all say that some people don't need GLP-1. Obviously as people are taking it that were not. But we look at trials and trials and trials. We're seeing people live longer. We're seeing less prevalence of cancer. We see reduction. What's >> live longer? >> No, that's literally what we're seeing in this. >> But live longer. I mean, it's it's like people have been using them for a few years. >> Well, no. They've been No, they've been studied since the '90s. And for >> diabetes 2005. >> Yeah. But for diabetes and for weight loss since 2014 for glutide. >> Yeah. And we have studies with two and a half million people done showing less rates of cancer prevalence, less rates of cardiac events. >> So again, you're looking at it from a very short term. term like I've heard of GLP-1 over the last three or four years where if we look at trial data that's been studied on GLOP1 for the last 15 years or so we're seeing positive health health outcomes we're seeing less prevalence of non-alcohol fatty liver less uh less accidents with cardiovascular we're seeing reduction obviously insulin use and many other providing factors so to me saying that taking blood pressure is not cheating then I would not think that taking GLP-1 is cheating if it's prescribed for specific reasons that benefit the user and I agree natural is the right way if it's available able, but it just hasn't been proven effective over the last decades of research that magically, you know, you should be able to stick to a natural diet. I want you to, and 60% of my clients do, they keep off the weight for life, which is great. But if a doctor identifies that they have risk factors that's causing their obesity or co-obidities or whatever it is, I'm going to accept their doctor's advice. I'm not going to discriminate against them. A lot of people in my industry is like, I'm not working with you on GOP1. So what I'm going to do is identify like, hey, you're probably going to have a little bit increase of muscle loss. So let's make sure how do we fix muscle loss? Everybody knows you need more protein, your resistance train, right? Well, those are things that I can intervene with on GOP1. I can make sure that they prevent starvation and they're getting the vitamins and minerals they need. So I'm out here promoting like, hey, we need to spread out your meals over the course of the day when I need to make sure that we're get protein at every meal. I want you to resistance train. I write 10-minute body weight exercises for my 600 lb clients. I have one that's down 205 lbs in 14 months. literally doing 10-minute workouts, but she's using GOP1 effectively. I also have her eating two slices of pizza with her family every Friday because I realize that if I with her and her family history that if I start eliminating all of her favorite foods, pizza or rice or potatoes, it's going to set her up for failure. If they're able to do it without GOP1 therapies, I'm going to be their biggest supporter. But I'm not also going to discriminate against them for being prescribed for diseases or conditions that they have that their doctor outlined and said, "You know what? you can benefit from this from your history of not being able to stick to a a lifestyle change. >> Well, we absolutely don't discriminate either. We work with people, you know, getting off the drugs. We work with people to try to establish lifestyle as well. Uh it's just that um it's just we don't we just feel like people are forgetting that their their bodies were designed to heal themselves. And sometimes when with the amount of advertising and money being poured into this and and even conversations like this, you know, people might just think that that they have to do that that their body doesn't work like it should. And and I don't want to give people that that's that feeling. I worry that they just think that they can rely on the drug when um you know they they need to try something different. You they have to keep changing up adversity. The body loves adversity you know that you know and so and so I just feel like um we have other solutions. >> I think Penelopey had the advantage of also being 15 16 years old that that endocrine problem which was an excessive amount of insulin probably from a genetic cause as well had not hijacked her brain for the 10 years that you guys had to suffer beyond what she had started. The reversal of that, I contend, is putting them in an advanced [clears throat] ketogenic state before you ever start one of these hormones or at the same time they start that reversing that um brain problem, giving you the freedom that you don't need that drug for the rest of your life. I absolutely see in my clinic where putting them in a state of ketosis, measuring ketones, that they are that is part of the solution going forward. And then the freedom that your body will make those hormones again normally that you hijacked out of it, thanks be to God. Uh, but you had a lesser burden than these two did because of the years that they spent in that endocrine hijack. >> How long do you think it would take for being in that ketosis state? Because I was in it for a year, still had the facial hair that comes from PCOS, still had the chest hair, still had the irregular periods. So, how long do do I have to be in keto for the rest of my life or how how >> So, I put patients in a ketogenic state over a 3-we course >> and then give them the GLP ones until they get the weight off. meaning what that [clears throat] GLP one does in a in a especially the combination I only used for that >> that's what I think that hormone intervention at a microscopic dose compared to the starting doses otherwise will will keep them fat forward uh they can stay in that ketogenic state until they get not only their brain healed but their endocrine system healed and they get off of it really well >> interesting >> insurance companies should fully cover ompic for weight management I think if it's really if somebody really needs it, it can help them and they it insurance should cover it cuz in the US what it's like $1,300 if you're not covered and it's really really hard to get coverage for it. >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean insurance obviously the cost of you know providing uh GLP-1 care among their their uh many many uh purchasers of insurance is obviously a huge expense and they're trying their best to limit access to it to a point like hey you got to meet certain requirements or you have to go on uh metformin first or you have to do this or you have to do that and and jump through a lot of hoops but the fact that obesity is a chronic health condition we've seen it spiral out of control the last 50 or 60 years we know that traditional lifestyle interventions for most people don't work the way we want them to. Obviously, we want them to we want everybody to lose weight, live healthy, eat whole foods, and work out and train. But unfortunately, that's not what we're seeing in in today's society. That GOP1 has the the the intent to actually help people with these co-obidities live longer, live a healthier lifestyle, and and there they should absolutely be covered by all insuranceances. >> Instead of an insurance company making the drug requirement a weight number, yes, weight matters, and if you get that weight off, the patient is healthier. I think insurance companies should say, "Induce a ketogenic state and I'll cover the drug." And when you watch how much that endocrine shift changes the health of that patient, you're going to save a ton of money. I've spoken with a lot of doctors here in the States cuz I'm from Canada. Obviously, it's a little different, you know, learning learning how it works here. If if you look at this the analyses comparing the cost of the drugs to the obesity expenditures, actually the obesity expenditures wouldn't cover the cost of the drugs. But what's interesting is when you actually expand that out to consider work absenteeism, presentism, so low productivity at work, uh workers uh compensation, disability payments, all of that, it obesity costs about $350 billion a year in America. And that works out to about 6,500 per person, which at least with insurance, that's about the cost of the drug. So they do end up paying for themselves. However, if you were to specifically extend insurance to those with other co-orbidities, high blood pressure or what have you, that could cost or at least in obesity related health issues could cost about 9,000 or even 10,000 a year. In that case, it's a no-brainer that expanding coverage um for those cases would would work out in the favor of um saving money. >> Did your insurance cover yours? >> Absolutely not. >> Absolutely not. I went and got Yeah, I got prescribed um Mangaro off label during the time. Again, went for weight loss, but then the nurse practitioner that prescribed it was like, "Okay, you are pre-diabetic. It's a medication for people with diabetes." Yeah. But they were like, "M, you're like 6.1 A1C. Call me back when you got like a 6.9 and then we can have a conversation." And then there are plenty of people in the GOP1 community that are diabetic where their insurance still didn't cover it for them. >> It was made it was made for them originally. >> Like pre-diabetics were like, "That's your golden ticket." But I'm that's why I asked like, "Yeah, I don't cholesterol pre-diabetic. I knew it wasn't going to get covered." >> None of it. They all were just like denied. Okay. Do an appeal, do step therapy, do all of this. And it still it getting to a peer-to-peer review, none of it mattered. and I was paying for it out of pocket. And then at that point, I was like, you know, I'm just going to get on a compound. It's more affordable. All of that. >> I I'll tell you a horror story. So, I have a client that's on Zetbound and she's uh 69 years old and lost 160 pounds with GOP1 therapy and our coaching. Uh insurance dictated to her one day, hey, look, we're no longer called uh going to cover Zepbound because uh you're no longer obese. >> Uh she quit my coaching. She purposely gained 20 pounds so that way she could get rediagnosed as obese. >> So, it just it just doesn't make sense to me how insurance guidelines uh approve it based off of obesity management. >> Yeah, I don't think any of my patients have it covered by their insurance. I mean, I'm trying to think of one that's been covered in the last year and the time frame for what we look at how long they're going to be on it. We set up a three-month plan that this prescription at the end of three months. So, we're going to try and stop. I I feel like if insurance is going to cover something, they should cover a holistic approach to weight loss and everything that we've all agreed upon that needs to happen because at the end of the day, that's where everybody ends back up is you have to get these things in place. Otherwise, you're going to be on it forever, which is okay. But I feel like if they're going to cover something, it needs to be the education because too many people just don't know. >> I think if insurance companies decide to cover it, it should be with the guardrails like we spoke about earlier in this talk. um that there should be uh support provided for lifestyle coaching, uh cooking classes, and they should be able to prove out that they're making the the changes and they should support their patients or clients, you know, to get off of these drugs to titrate off of them safely and carefully and set them up for success. And it makes me wonder if the insurance companies are really even invested in the well-being of their of their clients. I mean, I would hope so. Um and and your your equation is interesting in terms of the it's a wash. Let's just say it pays for itself. Well, but from my research, >> Canada's [clears throat] national health care system is not paying for the drug at all. >> Um, it is in some cases you have to meet certain criteria just like here. So, I actually kind of like you, I had one patient who was like just under kind of the cut off and then they wouldn't be covered and and it's a case of okay, well, they have to gain a certain amount of weight in order to be covered and it's a huge headache. And I see that with other interventions as well. um to to go a little bit off of of this topic for a second here. I I treat a lot of iron deficiency and in order for somebody to get an iron infusion, they have to be way down here. >> Sure. >> But if they take iron supplements and they boost it a little bit, all of a sudden they don't qualify for the infusion anymore. And so they're just stuck in that middle ground. It's the same kind of issue with with the u if the if the research is so compelling, why is Denmark, Canada, and Germany not not adopting it like we are in the United States? I feel like we're we're be we're agreeing to be tested on in a way. Well, one of the problems is when it comes to prescription coverage, whether it's in Canada or here, I believe it would be similar, is it's not through the the government necessarily, like in Canada, it's not under our our government plans. It's usually additional coverage that you have. So, one of the problems, I've spoken with some obesity medicine specialists here in in the US, is that >> people switch jobs all the time. They switch coverages. And to you, for you to actually acrue the benefits of lowering obesity cost, somebody needs to stick with you for a long period of time, right? So why would somebody cover pay for your drug for the first few years so you lose this weight only so that the next insurance company actually benefits from that weight loss? That's one of the main problems. >> What's the out- of- pocket cost for example? >> Um 2 to30 probably in Canada versus here it's 13 [laughter] I was like where are you going in Canada? I mean 1300 here. >> The moral of the story is is even though I mean you're right they're not covering it. to a advantageous cost for most people to be able to afford or maybe not most people but it's still cost that's cheaper than compound in the United [clears throat] States it's been negotiated down right that's the whole thing >> since we can all agree that babies are not born 400 lb and I didn't wake up 320 lb it is our responsibility our health is our responsibility what we put in our mouth is our responsibility and insurance doesn't need to pay for us to take an injection to keep eating the crappy food that we still do that's what I'm seeing I'm seeing a lot of people eating the same food just less of it, still sick, still suffering with PCOS, still suffering with uh rashes on their skin, still suffering with acne, and and they still suffer. And I don't want to see people suffering, and I know they can heal themselves. I know the body can heal itself naturally. I don't think insurance should cover injections. I think insurance should cover healthy food. I think insurance should cover vegetables and fruit and fiber and and and and well-raised meat, organic meat. You know, that that's important and that's what we should be focusing on. >> Well, let's offer a scenario here. Let's say that somebody's tried everything and they want to eat a healthy whole foods diet and they do it temporarily and they fall off. Then they start these medications and they're finally able to implement those changes. They're eating a whole foods plant predominant whatever diet and they're doing really well on it with the medications. Would you be in favor of them covering it in that case because it's helping them make those changes. >> They can do it without the drug. >> But if they haven't been able to, let's say they've tried for 10 years, >> I am 100% confident. >> Okay. So we have studies over and over that average weight loss is 5 to understand. We have studies. I believe in isolated. We love isolated incidents. Like it's great. I'm I'm super impressed. Like I'm a big fan of We've helped hundreds of women, too. >> It's not just We're just not >> But it's still anecdotal. You still can't adjust for all other possible compounders. You can't possibly account for those. And these are self- selected. >> You guys can't either. You guys can't say everyone needs a GLP1. No, nobody has said let's not put words in our mouth. Understand that. I understand. But it's also not indefinite that people need GLP1s to lose weight. >> But for some people, it is the only thing that's working. It's not. No. >> Okay. Well, studies show over and over that average weight loss with following a plan is 5 to 10% of your body weight. You try that four to five times a year. Typically fail. Within two years, 50% of it's back. Within three years, 80 plus%. >> I don't believe people are statistics. I understand statistics inform decisions. >> You think smoking causes lung cancer. >> Uh it can and sometimes people who die from other things, other things. >> So things don't cause death every time or cause lung. It doesn't have to cause lung cancer in 100% of cases for it to cause lung cancer. Just because it doesn't cause lung cancer doesn't mean it's not good for them. >> Doesn't mean it's not Just because it causes lung cancer right away doesn't mean that it's good for people to smoke. >> The same thing goes with but why but how did you come to that conclusion? >> What's your point? >> Yeah. So my question is statistics. You came to that conclusion because the research consistently shows that smoking causes lung cancer. You didn't like I can point to Freddy Blum. One of the world's oldest men died at 118 years old at least reportedly a few years ago. He smoked every day. I could point to that individual and a number of other centinarians who live very long lives while smoking. I would not point to these individuals to suggest that hey smoking is actually not that bad for you. In fact, per capita cigarette consumption across the world is associated with greater life expectancy. Why? Not because of smoking, but because countries where they smoke more are also richer, have better infrastructure, higher socioeconomic status. We need to account for all of these other variables. That's why the statistics are important and that's why you believe smoking causes lung cancer or at least is not good for you. I think statistics are important and you talked about how quickly people gain weight or regain weight and sometimes when we're presenting stat statistics to people, we have to give them context. So I lost 50 lbs and regained 20 or 30 back over the years, but it's in muscle. So if you were to put me into that data, I look like someone who regained the weight back and I did in muscle. So that's why sometimes when when like again I love the stats, but it's like we need to hear the rest of the stats or what is the rest of the context? >> Let me give you another stat just because I think that this side needs needs some more good stats. Okay. So, 2024, in 2024, they did a study. They did a it was a randomized trial and there was a group of people who were on GLP-1s and a group of people who exercise and ate well. The people who exercise and ate well in the GLP1 group, they both lost the same amount of weight. But the people who ended up losing the weight naturally had improved fitness, improved heart health, and they had improved muscle. The GLP1 group did not. >> But what does that tell you about natural weight loss? Natural weight loss is better. Period. End of story. You can you you can show me all the study. I like how you like to look at it afterwards. >> Show me the healthy people who are not on GLP ones who do not need them who have tried so much, but when they tried getting rid of flour and sugar, they're okay now. >> So 20% of Americans are not obese or overweight. So somewhere between 70 and 80% are. So you're talking about a one in five population that has no issues with their weight. We're talking about 75% the other half of it that are that have done these things. Maybe they haven't eliminated all sugar and flour, right? And if the insurance companies cover that, they're going to be broke for all 70% of the population. Everybody, >> but that's overweight and obesity. So I I would suggest just obesity, which is 40% or potentially I I think it's reasonable to suggest only higher classes of obesity or obesity. >> And the thing that we got to look at too with cost as we're having new companies enter the market, the cost is going to go down. I mean, we have, you know, RETA coming out soon. Viking has a phenomenal product coming out. We have Kaggy Simma or >> Yeah, we have orals. So, I I think that the cost of of GOP1 therapies are going to drop r drastically over the next few years and and hopefully it's to a point where it's cost effective for everybody and you don't have to have Gucci insurance or know a doctor that can slide through, you know, some free samples or whatever. It's just these people have tried religiously and in your cases you all have done amazing. Seriously, like that's absolutely amazing. We do I do believe that people should do it naturally. The problem is is when we look at society, Americans as a whole, they've tried >> and they have failed. Great. Tsunami of these coming their way. >> Super nice. >> Nice meeting. >> Awesome. >> Great story, by the way. >> Thank you. >> Thank you so much. [music] Browsing my feet.